Melting Coins a Sign of Life and Hope

By David C. Harper, World Coin News May 13, 2011

This article was originally printed in World Coin News.
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I have been reading some laments lately that the high price of silver will lead to the melting of coins and thereby deprive future collectors of the opportunity to own them.

While I certainly can’t quibble with the logic that future collectors can’t own something that is melted in the present, I do not find the present prospect of melting to be a bad thing. Quite the contrary, it is a very good thing.

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Coin collecting is supposed to be a living hobby of assembling useful objects, not simply a small group of people who purchase made-to-order pieces that have no connection to the wider world.

We are living through uncertain times. The state of the world’s economy has shaken many people’s belief that the future will inevitably be an improvement on the past. They see dark times ahead and take refuge in precious metals.

Their actions have driven up the price of precious metals beyond what collectors are willing to pay for certain previously collectible coins. These coins are sold for their melt value by individuals who want or need the cash their sale will generate.

It is a symptom of the times. It is a reflection of real people taking real actions. The odds that anybody will sell something of truly historical value for melting is virtually nil. The odds that something previously common will become scarce are also nil if the great melt of 1980 is any guide.

Mintages of these items will no longer be an accurate guide, but then many modern issues have no publicly available mintage figures. It will be up to collectors to re-establish relative rarities when the price of silver stabilizes.

I celebrate the fact that these coins once again have economic value and serve a purpose important to a wider population.

Throughout history coins have been melted as part of their useful purpose. These events tell stories.

Jewelers around the world have melted coins for the raw material of their craft for centuries. Modern factory produced jewelry may make us forget that.

When France paid its huge indemnity to Germany after the Franco-Prussian War, it allowed Germany to adopt the gold standard in 1873, and many silver coins hit the melting pots.

When the euro was introduced to circulation in 2002, the national coinages previously used were destroyed.

When India needed silver in 1918 to stabilize its currency, the United States melted 270 million Morgan dollars and then replaced them over 10 years with new Peace dollars.

When the terrible costs of World War I upset the British economy, the old .925 fine silver coins were replaced by .500 fine coins. After World War II, Britain had to take .500 fine silver out of coins altogether. Both are stories of sacrifice.

Great historical events led to the destruction of a certain number of coins, thus depriving future generations of having them to collect.

However, enough survive to keep the hobby alive, growing and interesting. Collectors tell and retell their historical stories. We are living through another epoch where some coins are casualties. We will tell the stories – as we should.

Fractional gold has purpose, or does it?                                      

Since sales of fractional gold American Eagle bullion coins began in June, the tenth-ounce coins have moved out the door at a reasonable pace.

As of July 13, buyers had taken 300,000 of the small coins. They are popular as jewelry and they also are popularly used by promoters to entice novice gold buyer’s to get genuine U.S. Mint gold at a price that doesn’t choke a horse.

One-tenth of the present $1,200 price of an ounce of gold is much easier for novice buyers to part with than the cost of the one-ounce coin.

Obviously, though ,with sales approaching 700,000 pieces, demand for the one-ounce coin is not hurting. Savvy investors need no introduction to it.

Sales of the half-ounce coin at 31,000 pieces and the quarter ounce at 44,000 coins are betwixt and between. They aren’t the standard investment coin and they are not nearly as popular as jewelry. So what exactly are they?

In days when $2.50, $5 and $10 coins were needed to make change for gold $20s, the smaller sizes had a purpose.

With investment coins, you don’t need to make change, though I have seen the concept bruited about online as the fractional gold coins are tipped as needed when the currency system breaks down and change in gold will again be required.

Judging from current fractional gold American Eagle sales, perhaps that point is a rather hard one to make.

by Dave

It is good that my blog is being read by some people who are prominent in numismatics. I appreciate it.

I had an e-mail waiting for me this morning from Donald Scarinci of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee and he sent a tweet last night during the meeting of this body that was being held in Colorado Springs, Colo., during the American Numismatic Association Summer Seminar.

His tweet: I just corrected Dave Harper’s blog comment that suggests that the CFA and the CCAC blame Congress for proliferation causing quality issues.”

I thank him for thinking that my blog comments of last Friday need correcting. I don’t think they do. I stand by them.

At root is the basic question: what is the difference between a blog and a news story?

There is a big difference.

My blog is my blog. I do not claim that what I post here is a news story, though certainly having news in the blog is a good thing.

A blog is my opinion about news.

His e-mail asked this:

“Wherever did you get this from:

“‘They would rather point the finger at Congress, current legal statutes and Mint processes.’”

He then continued:

“Both the CFA and the CCAC are blaming the Mint processes for the lack of excellence in coin design. We are not blaming Congress or any statutes. The fault is with the Mint and if we, the CFA, are unable to do anything to help solve the problem, then we too are part of the problem. Gary Marks said that in his remarks tonight.

“We had a productive meeting tonight. For the first time since it was created by Congress, the CCAC formed a subcommittee to propose a process to create excellence in coin design. It was a historic meeting. Take a look at my tweets when you get a chance.

“I mentioned your blog at the meeting, tweeted my comment, and made it very clear that the CCAC is not blaming Congress.

“It’s good to have this dialog and it certainly helps generate interest and attention to coin designs. It’s a good thing.”

He signed it, “Donald.”

It wasn’t a particularly long e-mail, but it seems longer here.

I support Donald’s goal of improving the artistic quality of American coins. I think most collectors do.

The only way he can do so is to attack the Mint processes, because as I wrote, Congress cannot be challenged and the statutes will not change.

It is absolutely necessary to understand that background. If you don’t, the current CCAC effort makes no sense.

If dissatisfaction with coin designs had not been chronic in those bodies for many years, prompting many a cry of frustration of having to do what Congress wants and working with all of the legally mandated inscriptions by members, you would then think the sole motivation for the effort last night simply was a bad batch of designs shown at the May meetings.

That certainly isn’t the case.

How do you communicate all of this in a blog sentence or two?

I think I did that last Friday with what I wrote.

The fact that this blog post is already very long is a perfect demonstration of the necessity of distilling issues to their barest essence in an ordinary blog post.

Tomorrow, I promise to be brief.

I had a call from a married couple yesterday. They did not identify themselves to me, though it is possible they did so when they first reached my colleague Debbie Bradley.

After the call was transferred to me, it was the wife on the phone. She wanted to know if there was such a thing as a $50 gold piece.

I told her about the $50 American Eagle one-ounce coin.

I explained that these coins had been struck by the U.S. Mint since 1986 and that they were then sold into the bullion market, priced and traded at the current price of gold plus the mark-up.

She wanted a ballpark figure, so I said $1,250 plus the mark-up, which I said fluctuates.

She wondered why she couldn’t find this information in her book, though she never told me what it was. Perhaps she would have, but her husband was asking questions in the background and finally his wife gave him the phone.

He wanted to know about $20 gold pieces and what they were worth. I told him they traded among collectors based on condition.

He was impatient with that. He asked what’s the base price if the coin was in terrible condition.

I said it was worth the gold price or roughly $1,250 because it contained 96 percent of an ounce of gold.

He retorted that that’s what I had told his wife was the base price of the gold $50.

I said that’s because they are both approximately the same weight.

“You mean the $20 weighs the same as the $50? How can that be?

More or less, I replied, because the $20 was struck 1933 and before and the American Eagle was struck to a different standard starting in 1986.

He couldn’t seem to wrap his mind around the concept of the $20 and $50 coins being roughly the same weight and repeated the same questions.

Then he threw in the statement that someone was offering him coins for $500.

I replied that if they were one-ounce coins they were probably fake. I suppose I could have said stolen, but I didn’t get that far before he blurted out:

“I don’t buy fakes,” he exclaimed indignantly.

I asked why anyone would sell a coin to him with a base value of $1,250 for $500.

He was silent and still indignant.

He did not volunteer the identity of who was offering him the coins or what this person or firm claimed the coins to be.

After 10 minutes of this, he was ready to go, said good-bye and hung up.

I fear that the callers are going to end up having less money at the end of the week than what they started with.

Iola sure isn’t Nashville, Tenn., or Baltimore, or any other national show location, but when the Numismatists of Wisconsin held their 50th anniversary show here Friday and Saturday, attendees were behaving like their national counterparts.

Green Bay dealer Paul Reiser said, “Gold bullion was our best seller.” He noted that buyers were taking advantage of a price dip that occurred last week.

“I sold out of Krugerrands and Eagles,” Reiser explained.

“We did a lot in silver bullion,” he said of his 100-ounce and 50-ounce bars.

I can attest to that. One NOW member came by the Krause table as he was walking around the bourse and he was so pleased with his purchase of 10 ounces of silver that he showed me the A-Mark bar.

We had a nice talk about what the future might hold for it.

Nathan James Lord of Grant and Clemens, Watertown, Wis., pointed to an empty spot in his case on Saturday when I came around and he said that is where his 90-percent silver coins had been.

He wished he had had more, but he was not expecting to get a table when he came to Iola. A last-minute cancellation had given him a prime corner right at the show entrance. His results benefited.

Bullion might be hot, but the NOW show was full of typical collectors as well.
The Krause booth did a booming business in coin and paper money books.

I was personally chewed out by one attendee for not having non-numismatic books on hand that Krause published. She was in the mood to buy.

All I could do was invite her back to Iola July 8-11 when the annual car show will be held and Krause will have a book tent.

If that interests you, too, mark the dates on your calendar.

Make Sure You Have Something Real
May 07, 2010

Each morning as I start my day, I check the Kitco website to see what precious metals are doing.

Yesterday I wrote down $1,180.10 for gold and $17.52 for silver. This morning I wrote down $1,197.80 and $17.63.

If those numbers were the only information you had, who would think that the financial system almost melted down again yesterday purportedly due to some glitch?

That’s some glitch.

While it is easy to get wrapped up in online virtual reality, it is important to take a step back from it. Even the stuff that is supposed to be real online might not be.

That’s hard to wrap my mind around.

A little typing mistake can disrupt the world economy or worse.

That sort of puts typos in newspapers and blogs into perspective, doesn’t it?

That isn’t really my point, though. What I think is important to take away from this episode is the necessity of having some things in your life that are real and not affected by virtual reality. Obviously, home and family come to mind, but to whatever list you might compile, keep in mind that a coin collection is very real. You have it no matter what. There is some value there no matter what.

The same is true about gold and silver. Whatever happens, both metals are real. There is value there. There always will be. Market analysts simply argue about current and future prices not about whether they will have any value at all.

That’s something to hold onto.

My point, I think, is true whether next year’s gold price rises or falls. Gold is real. Real is good and it is something that can’t be trumped by whatever happens online.

Coin collectors often wonder what the future holds for the hobby. Speculation about it makes interesting reading.

One aspect of the future of numismatics is that it is largely determined by demographics.

Current collectors are counted by the number of them born between 60 and 50 years ago.

Why?

Because the prime decade of coin collecting for most hobbyists is their 50s. It has been that way for 100 years.

So the health of the hobby is determined by the number of 50-year-olds who decide to get in there and spend time and money on their favorite hobby.

Subtract the number of collectors who reach 60 this year from the number who turn 50 and the resulting number will tell you whether we will grow or not. If the number is positive, growth is likely.

True, there are collectors who are 49 and 61, respectively, but they are not part of the key demographic group.

In the next 10 years we will begin to see whether all the Young Numismatist programs that became mainstream in the 1970s will have any impact at all on the numbers of collectors in their prime.

About half of all collectors started before they were 20 and we will see if YN programs in their youth makes them return to the hobby in any greater numbers. Most collectors who started as kids put the hobby aside for a while as graduation, jobs and families became priorities. They then return in middle age as time and finances permit. Perhaps more will report that they never left the hobby, or returned sooner.

About 40 percent of collectors begin after age 40.

That leaves the great demographics wasteland of ages 20-40 where only 10 percent had their beginnings in numismatics.

The next 10 years should be a good one for the hobby overall. The question in my mind is what happens to YN programs if we see no evidence in that period that YN programs had any impact on the overall collecting life pattern of those who will be in their 50s during the coming decade and who would count among their number those very first YNs.

By Dave

The weekend was family time for many Americans, myself included. Conversations went one way and then another. There was the new baby coming in October. Kids are going back to school today after time off. There was the talk of tickets to a baseball game in Milwaukee today and the Boston-Cleveland basketball game that was playing in the background.

None of these conversational topics would or even should make headlines. What makes them important is that they all are part of family news.

This morning I was thinking of this and a comment Tom Post, the show general chairman of the American Numismatic Association convention in Fort Worth, Texas. made to me a week ago.

Tom did a superb job. If there were any glitches, I didn’t see them or hear of them.

But in a quiet moment Tom and I were just chit-chatting. He said that before 2009 he had never been to an ANA convention. That startled me a bit.

He was no stranger to coin shows generally, so it is not like he had to take a crash course in numismatics.

I’m a regular at ANA events. It is my job. Other regulars have to pay their own tabs and yet I see them show after show, year after year.

There are many conversations that occur at ANA conventions that don’t make the headlines. They are the numismatic version of family gatherings.

These conversations tie many people together in many small ways much as a family is tied together. That’s what makes attendance at these events so important. Certainly not everyone has the free time or money to attend every convention, but every collector should consider going to an ANA at least once to see what the experience is like.

You never know, it might lead you to become a regular, too. You might just find you have a numismatic family there.

 By Dave

Back when gold ownership was legalized in the United States on Dec. 31, 1974, there was a lingering fear that the coins that had been illegal to own since 1933 would once again become illegal to own.

Advisors told gold buyers to stick to coins like the standard U.S. gold coins struck before 1933 as well as world coins like British sovereigns and French 20 francs of similar vintage.

This seemed to be an unnecessary precaution as the age of the convenient one-ounce bullion coins was dawning.

The fear that gold would once again be called in by the government in a manner similar to what was done by President Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1933 shows up from time to time in the writings in the blogosphere.

Can it happen again? Sure, the legal underpinnings for a recall still exist.

Will it happen? Probably not.

But if you happen to believe the government is cooking statistics to understate inflation and overstate employment, manipulating the gold market, hiding the fact that it has secretly sold all of the gold in Fort Knox (which is a rumor that has existed all the way back to when Ike was President) – if you believe all of this, why would you believe that the government would let you keep your gold if the worst does indeed happen to the economy?

If the American government would default on its debt after not doing so for 221 years through the Civil War, Depression and World War II, would not political pressure in Washington be so intense as not to allow profits to be taken by those owning gold?

In a dollar collapse, would not the authorities be rooting out gold owners with the same zeal as the IRS presently is chasing tax dodgers with Swiss bank accounts?

Would coin collectors get a pass as they did in 1933 because the Treasury secretary was a coin collector and the President was a stamp collector?

In their darkest thoughts, perhaps gold owners are not thinking darkly enough.

 By Dave

I started my day in the dentist’s chair, so I am a little late getting started in the office this morning.

As is the custom, I was visiting with the dental technician/hygienist who was cleaning my teeth between periods of simply keeping my mouth open as she picked, scratched and polished.

Her daughter has reached the point in her life where she has figured out that the Tooth Fairy doesn’t exist. The story of how she figured it out was interesting as every kid is different.

The technician figured that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny would soon be toast as well.

That got me thinking about the numismatic equivalent of Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

What I came up with was the strong tendency among collectors to equate a low price with a good deal. Buying coins for 50 or 60 percent of the usual retail price has been the goal of some hobbyists.

While it is by no means impossible to score a deal from time to time, the appearance of being able to consistently buy coins for significantly below the prices printed in retail price guides should cause the would-be purchasers to have a flashing red light in his mind.

These coins might just be not what they are represented to be. They might be tampered with or overgraded.

Coin offers significantly below retail should be approached with caution. Have the coins checked out by a grading service, or make sure there is a return privilege in case it becomes necessary to return the coins.

Bargains are nice. They can happen. But when you see nothing but bargains think that it might be a case of the Easter Bunny – a delusion or fable, but without the happy ending