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British Coin Find Could Impact Market
One of the risks we take in coin collecting is obtaining truly rare coins, only to learn at some later date a new hoard of the same coin or coins has been discovered and is now driving down the value of our coins. The US 1903-O Morgan silver dollar is a prime example of this, but formerly rare coins ranging from ancients to Spanish colonial American issues salvaged from the wreck of the treasure ship Atocha have appeared in quantities due to similar discoveries.
Third century coins of Roman Britain may soon be added to this list. The Staffordshire Hoard of Anglo-Saxon found in 2009 and the more recent hoard of a staggering 52,503 Roman coins found in a field near Frome, Somerset in Great Britain will likely impact the market for these coins in the future. Sources indicate some of the 766 coins of the Roman usurper Marcus Aurelius Carausius identified in the recently announced find may be silver, but nevertheless should the coins reach the collector markets the large quantities will likely make a difference in supply, demand, and price of both the common and of the scarcer issues in the hoard.
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Carausius ruled Roman Britain as emperor between AD 286 and 293 when he was assassinated. Carausius used his authority in Britain to ingratiate himself financially by using his fleet in the English Channel to capture pirate ships. Roman Emperor Maximian ordered Carausius’ execution for these activities, but was unable to have these orders carried out. Carausius, who had advanced knowledge of these orders, broke with the Roman Empire and declaring himself emperor of northern Gaul and Britain. Carausius then gave some legitimacy to his new position by striking silver as well as bronze coins, the silver coins being the first of this quality struck in the Roman Empire in more than a century. It appears this was deliberate, to ensure his coinage was more valued by merchants than was that of the Roman Empire.
To put the Frome find into perspective, this find is still smaller than the 1978 find of 54,912 coins of Roman Britain discovered in two pots near Marlborough, Wilts. Regardless, if so many coins enter the coin collecting market this will impact the price of similar coins already available to collectors.
The British Broadcasting Corporation said of the Frome find, “It is estimated the coins were worth about four years’ pay for a legionary soldier.”
What will happen to the Frome find was yet to be determined by the Portable Antiquities Scheme at the time this article was being written. (The Portable Antiquities Scheme is a department of the British Museum which deals with treasure finds.) In some circumstances the entire find could be awarded to the finder, while in other circumstances the finder may be rewarded for the find, but not allowed to take possession of the coins. Several sources indicated the upcoming coroners’ inquest would allow the Somerset County Council to acquire the coins from both the finder and the person on whose land the coins were discovered, each of whom would receive 50 percent of the value of the find.
Although logic would suggest coin hoards recovered either from an underwater or underground source would likely be environmentally damaged, this fact coupled with the large quantities often encountered in such discoveries does not always drive down the price of these coins when the coins are first offered to the public.
Reverse psychology emphasizing the word “treasure” to the non-collecting general public has in several past examples helped to increase rather than decrease the price marketers have been able to realize for some of these finds. Once the finds are disbursed and the coins eventually reach more sophisticated coin collector markets the prices tend to adjust to something more realistic to the supply, demand, and condition of the coins. This often results in a financial loss to the persons purchasing such treasure coin finds based on emotion rather than on logic.
It is only speculation right now regarding if some of the 52,503 Roman British coins recently encountered will be released for sale by the Somerset County Council, or on the condition of these coins, but while it is exciting to learn following the study of such finds it is also important to learn to use logic rather than emotion when such finds are released for sale.
Viewpoint: Don’t Reveal Detection Secrets
| By Richard L. Francis Jr., Numismatic News August 26, 2010 |

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This article was originally printed in Numismatic News.
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If you were a football coach would you make your “play book” available to the opposing team? The answer is obviously “no” as that would enable the opposing team to better compete against you.
As crazy as the above scenario may seem, that is exactly what the numismatic community is doing each time it makes information available that enables counterfeiters to produce a better product.
I am certainly not faulting the numismatic press, which publishes such information, as their intentions are good. However, instead of working with the counterfeiters, we must work against them. We can no longer ignore the elephant in the room and should most certainly stop feeding him peanuts.
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At this time, information regarding counterfeit detection is readily available to all who wish to find it. To me, this is comparable to sharing arms and ammunition with an opposing army. While we must inform the numismatic community how to detect counterfeit coins, it must be done in such a way as to keep counterfeiters from using this same information against the ones it was intended to protect.
To this means let me suggest a possible solution. I feel it would be beneficial to the numismatic community if information regarding counterfeit detection was treated as a business threat confidential information. In other words, treated with security and only released on a “need to know” basis to authorized personnel. By doing so, this would limit the counterfeiter’s ability to know which fakes have been identified, and how, making it more difficult for them to improve their products.
To the person who insists on having information regarding counterfeit detection readily available, let me ask you this. What value does this information have once placed in the hands of a counterfeiter? The “markers” noted that help identify the counterfeit(s) will certainly be corrected, the result being a more deceptive counterfeit. What value would Colonel Sanders’ fried chicken recipe have if it was available to everyone? The answer is quite obvious. The numismatic community must contain this “leak.” Counterfeiters cannot use information they do not have.
While the noted recommendation may seem drastic, unfortunately the implementation of such a plan is necessary in our battle against counterfeiters. In order to implement this program we must first ask the following questions. Who will be the caregivers of this information? Who will have access to this information? How will this information be stored and shared?
Let’s look at each in turn. Who will be the caregivers of this information? I feel the caregivers should be the certification services as it is their business to distinguish a genuine coin from a counterfeit coin. They are our first line of defense against the counterfeiters. They are the “go to” group for the established dealer, experienced numismatist or beginning collector.
On to our second question. Who will have access to the information? I feel this group should consist of any established coin dealer, as well as established ANA members. For the purpose of this proposal let’s define “established” as five years or more.
I would further suggest that any established coin dealer or ANA member who is part of the group be allowed, upon their personal recommendation, to add a numismatist to the group. This would essentially offer access to those with a legitimate need to have the information while making it more difficult for the counterfeiters to know which of their products we can identify and how. It would also encourage those who are not ANA members to join as well as encourage those who do not have a “dealer relationship” to start one.
Let us now address our last question. How will this information be stored and shared? I would suggest the use of a secured website. While much could be said about the design and features of the proposed website, I do not wish to get off point.
The idea of a proposed website begs the question, who will run the website and how would it be funded? I recommend the website be run by the certification companies or the ANA. While there would certainly be some additional costs in relation to certification fees or ANA dues, that is a small price to pay for what the numismatic community would receive in return.
To make this work a hobby commitment would be required by the numismatic press, certification companies, dealers and collectors.
In conclusion, this possible solution may be inconvenient to some, but we must look at the bigger picture. We must look at the greater good and do what is best for the future of our hobby.
Are we, as a group, ready to stand up and take action? If not, then we deserve what we get.
Richard L. Francis Jr. is a hobbyist in Cape Girardeau, Mo.
Coin Rarities & Related Topics
26/08/10
Coin Rarities & Related Topics: The rise in the number of collectors of rare U.S. coins and the importance of the PCGS & the NGC
By Greg Reynolds on Wednesday, August 25, 2010
Filed Under: Column: Coin Rarities, Commentary and Opinion, Featured, General Collecting, US Coins
News and Analysis regarding scarce coins, coin markets, and the coin collecting community #15
A Weekly Column by Greg Reynolds
Today’s topic relates to the number of people who collect rare or scarce U.S. coins, and, at least once in a while, spend more than $1000 on a single coin. The number of such collectors has grown tremendously since around 1998.
At various times since Sept. or Oct. 2008, a substantial number of collectors have stopped buying, not because of lack of interest, but rather because of their own personal financial circumstances. After all, in the middle of 2008, a rather severe recession began that negatively affected almost everyone. Further evidence of my point regarding the increase in numbers and in interest of coin collectors is found in the fact that rare U.S. coins went down in value to a much lesser extent than almost all other categories of assets.
There has only been a modest amount of attrition since coin markets peaked during the first seven to eight months of 2008. (Please see my remarks about coin markets in the following articles: O’Neal’s Eagles – Part1, Part 2; Queller’s Patterns; August 2009 Market Report – Part 1, Part 2, Part 3; and my Review of the Jan. 2010 Platinum Night event.)
Why is there is a reason to put forth such points now? After all, I could, and had planned to, write more about the terrific coins that I saw at the ANA Convention in Boston. (Please click to read last week’s column.) Unfortunately, very recently, in a print publication (CW), a widely recognized commentator (QDB) has put forth a theory that most “serious” collectors are well over fifty years old and that the number of coin collectors has not been increasing. This poorly reasoned theory needs to be addressed.
I. Young Adults and Coin Conventions
Without research, it can be logically deduced that most young adult collectors do not have the time to attend many first tier coin conventions or expos. Further, because of the growth of the Internet and other advances in technology, there is less to be gained, than before, by attending major conventions, though I still recommend attending them. If a majority of the collector-buyers at major events, like the ANA and FUN Conventions, are over the age of fifty, this does NOT prove that a majority of collectors who are seriously interested in expensive U.S. coins are over the age of fifty.
It should be obvious that most collectors between the ages of seventeen and fifty just do not have the time to attend ANA or FUN Conventions, or Long Beach Expos. Surely, many young adults in their twenties, thirties and forties, are busy with their careers and/or busy running their own businesses. A lot of people work ten hours a day to further their business or occupational pursuits, especially many of those collectors who spend more than $1000 per coin. It is also true that collectors in their twenties or thirties may be focused on their respective families.
In general, it is unrealistic to expect a thirty-three year old entrepreneur to be staying up at night thinking about locating a Draped Bust, Small Eagle half dollar, completing a set of Three Cent Nickels, or assembling a type set of Proof Liberty Head gold coins. Of course, there is an occasional thirty-three year old, very affluent collector who devotes ten to twenty hours a week to studying coin related materials and to building his coin collection. Clearly, though, few thirty-something collectors will have the time to attend ANA or FUN Conventions. Therefore, QDB and also Doug Winter are correct in that collectors in the fifty to eighty year old range are more likely to engage in BOTH spending on rarities and extensive travel to coin events. It is indisputable, however, that there are many unseen coin collectors in their twenties, thirties and forties.
In an article here on CoinLink, Doug Winter states, “ever since coin collecting became popular in the United States, in the late 1850’s [to] early 1860’s, [it has] been a hobby that mainly attracts older people. Think about it: coins are expensive and people in their 20’s and 30’s have never had enough discretionary income to be making impulsive non-essential purchase. When you are 27 years old, you are thinking about buying a house and saving money for your child’s education; not deciding what series of 19th century gold coin to specialize in.”
In response to Winter, two points come to mind. My first point is consistent with Winter’s analysis. Many of the people who spend large sums on coins when they are over age fifty were interested for years or decades. They just did not earlier have the money and/or the time to devote to buying many coins that cost more than $1000 each. Secondly, in opposition to Winter, I strongly believe that there are thousands of U.S. coin collectors in their twenties and thirties who actively buy rarities.
I maintain that there are a substantial number of people in their twenties and thirties who do acquire four figure coins (and quite a few of them have purchased six figure coins). I have met or otherwise heard about quite a fair number of them. Old timers may be startled by the incomes of some young adults, particularly in major metropolitan areas.
Many relatively young adults involved in finance, banking, certain areas of international business, and technologically advanced industries, among other fields, continue to earn seven or sometimes eight figure incomes, even during the recession. Besides, someone who has an income in the low six figures, especially if he or she does not have children, can often afford to buy many coins that are valued at more than $1000 each. The suburbs of most major cities are home to a large number of relatively young adults who have incomes in the low six figures or more.
II. False Conclusions from True Data
To support his hypothesis that “the vast majority of people seriously interested in coin collecting today are on the long side of fifty years old,” QDB emphasizes the decline in: the number of physical coin stores, the number of subscriptions to one coin newspaper (CW), and the total membership in the American Numismatic Association (ANA). QDB also concludes that the total number of coin collectors has not significantly risen in a very long time. While the three sets of numbers that he cites have truly declined from peaks or not substantially increased, his conclusions are illogical.
I am here reminded of the title of an unrelated book by Ben Wattenberg, The Good News is the Bad News is Wrong. Physical coin stores, the ANA, and CW all have much less significance to collectors of rarities than these did decades ago. Innovations in the coin collecting community coupled with advances in technology have changed coin markets such that relatively new collectors seek almost all of their information via the Internet, or by way of telephone conversations with those who they meet via the Internet. Plus, most proprietors of coin stores, the management of the ANA and the contributors to CW have not focused on PCGS and NGC certified coins to the same extent that serious collectors of rarities focus upon them.
III. Old Fashioned Coin Stores
The decline in the number of physical coin stores, which are distinct from offices for mail-order sales or online Internet stores, is NOT indicative of a decline in the number of coin collectors. There are other reasons for this decline.
(1) Since the 1960s, the cost of insurance has risen, in real terms. (2) In the 1960s and 1970s, and to some extent in the 1980s, violent crime was a terrible problem, much more so than it was before 1960 or after 1990. Some of the proprietors of coin stores were killed, assaulted or just scared to the point of being emotionally scarred. The crimes of the past have discouraged dealers in later years, and in the present, from opening coin stores. (3) From the 1960s to the present, there has been a tendency for sales taxes to increase. In many circumstances, coin collectors can legally avoid sales taxes (though not necessarily legally avoid ‘use’ taxes) by receiving coins in the mail from sellers in States other than their own. (4) Coin dealers usually do not have the time to spend five or six days a week in a coin store. In the decades since the 1960s, there became more of a need for coin dealers to travel to buy coins and trade with other dealers. (5) The advent of the PCGS and the NGC resulted in lower profit margins on coins and thus some small coin stores were replaced by larger mostly ‘mail order’ coin dealerships that can feasibly operate with smaller ‘buy-sell’ spreads. (6) The last and strongest reason is that most information regarding coins being offered is disseminated over the Internet. A collector may ‘browse’ many listings of coins on the Internet in the same period of time that it would have required to drive to a local coin store, if there is one nearby, and it is unlikely that a local coin store would have an inventory that matches the inventories that could be found via the Internet in just a few minutes.
IV. Subscriptions to One Publication
It is nonsensical to argue that the decline in subscriptions to one newspaper or magazine indicates that there is a decline in the number of coin collectors. Obviously, since the late 1990s, coin related websites have blossomed and there is a tremendous amount of worthwhile information available for free on the Internet. Consider the good (though far from perfect) free price guides at PCGS.com and Numismedia.com. The Heritage Auction Archives constitute an incredible resource. The NGC and ANS websites deserve honorable mention. The PCGS and Stella Coin websites include electronic versions of quality books that may be read for free.
Coin collectors find hundreds of articles on PCGS and NGC certified coins, and related markets, that are available for free on CoinLink.com. I am not here referring only to my own columns and analytical articles. I recommend articles by Doug Winter, Laura Sperber and others.
I could understand why someone who was a dealer in the 1960s may think now that one coin (print) publication (CW) and the ANA are crucial to collectors. In the 1960s and the 1970s, this newspaper and the ANA were leading sources of information regarding rare U.S. coins. These were the mainstream information sources, along with an array of Krause publications, including Numismatic News weekly. Of course, the ANA and the print newspapers are still important as sources of information, but they no longer hold the same kind of central positions that they did in the past.
V. The PCGS and the NGC
The most revolutionary transformation in the history of coin collecting is the emergence and acceptance of the PCGS and the NGC in the mid 1980s. These are the two leading services that authenticate, grade and encapsulate coins. Previous efforts to standardize coin grading, even with encapsulation, were not entirely successful. The PCGS and the NGC rapidly became very successful.
For scarce or rare U.S. coins valued at more than $1000 each, in any grade, more than 90% of the honest and/or highly qualified dealers will sell only those that are certified by the PCGS or the NGC. Of course, some of these same dealers may sell low priced coins that are not so certified. For example, it is not cost-effective for a dealer to submit a 1914-D dime in Good-04 grade to the PCGS or the NGC.
For conditionally rare (and thus not generic), pre-1964 U.S. coins that grade 64 or higher, the threshold is less than $1000. For any such coins valued at more than $250 each, over 85% of the legitimate and/or highly qualified dealers limit their offerings of such coins to those that are certified by the PCGS or the NGC. Put differently, dealers who sell such coins that are not certified by the PCGS or the NGC are usually (though not always) suspect or are clearly engaging in practices that most experts would regard as wrongful.
Of course, there exist honest, qualified dealers who sell raw (not certified) U.S. coins for more than $1000 each or very choice uncirculated raw condition rarities for more than $250 each. Such dealer-exceptions, though, are scarce. For coins in these two categories, legitimate mainstream dealers sell coins that are certified by the PCGS or the NGC. While this point may seem obvious to most of those collectors who read my columns and articles, it would not be obvious to all those who read only the print publications and thus do not read mainstream coin material on the Internet. Someone who reads only CW and the ANA’s monthly magazine may not understand the role of the PCGS and the NGC in markets for rare U.S. coins.
From a stack of recent CW issues, I arbitrarily selected the March 1, 2010 issue. Other than in advertisements, I did not see any mention of the PCGS or the NGC until page 20. Even then, the PCGS was mentioned in the caption of an image of a coin that was not specifically mentioned, or even alluded to, in the article that this image accompanied, which did not mention any grading service. Finally, on page 24, in the second to last paragraph of Ken Potter’s article on some Lincoln Cent varieties, there is mention, in passing, of a Lincoln Cent that was certified by the PCGS. Elsewhere in this issue, there is a long article on the new Shield reverse 2010 Lincoln Cents.
Later, on p. 46, Steven Roach mentions an NGC certified coin in the second to last paragraph of his market report and a PCGS certified coin in the last paragraph. The NGC certified coin that Roach mentioned is a very famous and extremely rare, 1849-C ‘Open Wreath’ Gold Dollar, which, I suggest, should have merited a distinct, long article. On page 54, selected prices realized for an auction are presented in paragraph form; this piece looks like it came from an auction firm’s press release. There is no analysis or discussion of the rarity or importance of the coins auctioned. All the coins listed are PCGS or NGC certified, and their respective assigned grades are cited.
In the June 28th issue, other than in ads and in two or so letters to the editor, I did not notice a mention of the PCGS or the NGC until page 82 in another example of auction coverage that seemed to be a reformation of a press release from the auction company. As I am not a perfect reader, it is entirely possible that I missed a mention of the PCGS or the NGC, here or there, in one or both of these issues of CW. As best as I can tell, there is not one real discussion of a PCGS or NGC certified coin in either of these two issues of CW, which is not unusual. An absence of such discussions is typical of CW.
I maintain that collectors who spend thousands of dollars on PCGS or NGC certified coins would like to read articles that would assist them in evaluating, interpreting or at least further understanding valuable PCGS or NGC certified coins. How could one commentator conclude that the fact that CW had more subscribers in the past means that there are fewer collectors in the present? Could it be true that serious collectors of rarities were much more likely to subscribe to CW in the 1960s and 1970s than they are in the present?
As for the monthly publication of the ANA, The Numismatist, it is entertaining. Other than the columns by experts employed by the NGC (some of which are excellent), few of the articles in this publication would help readers evaluate, interpret, or further understand PCGS or NGC certified coins. Is it true that joining the ANA is very beneficial to collectors who spend large sums on rare or scarce U.S. coins and seek to learn more about grading, natural toning, coin doctoring, interpreting population reports, condition rarities, pedigrees, and auctions? Instead, it may be true that such information is more likely to be found on the Internet than in the ANA’s publications.
I am not aiming here to criticize CW or the ANA’s publications. I am asserting that it is not logical to equate changes in the number of subscribers to CW or changes in the number of ANA members to changes in the number of collectors of expensive PCGS and NGC certified coins. Moreover, it is logical to conclude that many new collectors are not subscribing to CW and not joining the ANA. Even so, I am not discouraging anyone from subscribing or joining. The ANA’s publications and CW have plenty of interesting articles and cover a wide variety of numismatic topics.
Certainly, there are many articles in both CW and The Numismatist regarding the connections between overall history and coins. I am skeptical, though, as to whether most collectors who are focused on buying rarities (or very scarce U.S. coins) are really interested in reading about history. I suggest that the ANA may be able to expand its membership if the ANA takes positions on controversial issues and offers more material that is of educational value to collectors who spend a lot of money on PCGS and NGC certified coins.
VI. The Growth of Coin Collecting
Before reading recent arguments, I did not realize that the recent growth of U.S. coin collecting is a controversial point. I am almost certain that, from 1998 or so to some point in 2008, the number of new collectors of rather expensive U.S. coins kept increasing to a substantial extent.
From 2002 to 2008, U.S. coin prices, in several categories, tripled or quadrupled. Prices for almost all scarce or rare U.S. coins went up. During this period, the number of coin collectors who signed up on the Heritage website increased from less than 50,000 to more than 250,000! Heritage auctions more than $250 million a year of just coins, mostly to collectors who bid over the Internet or to their dealer-representatives. Of course, some of the people who sign up on the Heritage website do not buy a large number of coins priced at more than $1000 each. Thousands do. Many have bought coins for more than $100,000 each. Please see my review of the Jan. 2010 Platinum Night event or many of my weekly columns over the past two months.
Generally, an 1856-O Double Eagle that was worth $30,000 in the early to mid 1990s could easily be worth more than $400,000 now. Compare the prices in the auctions of (a large part of) the Harry Bass collection in 1999 and 2000 with the prices many of the exact same coins realized during the past five years. The same coins, just a few years later, tended to realize, from two to ten times as much. Though it is not the best example as it has since been given a Specimen designation by the NGC, I recently wrote about the Bass 1853-O Eagle that sold for less than $20,000 in 1999 and for $316,250 in a Stack’s auction in Boston on Aug. 7.
In general, it is inconceivable that the same collectors decided to spend more than five times as much for the same coins. There must have been thousands of new collectors joining the coin community from 2002 to 2008.
Walter Husak’s PCGS graded AU-55 1793 Liberty Cap large cent was auctioned for $632,500 in Feb. 2008. A decade or so earlier, in Feb. 1998, the exact same coin realized $90,750 at auction, about one-seventh of its Feb. 2008 price. (Please see my article that focused on this coin.) This is not an isolated example; large cents, gold coins, many bust silver coins, and a vast array other U.S. rarities rose in value to multiples of their previous respective price levels, from 2002 to 2008. On July 31, 2008, Heritage auctioned an 1804 dime for $632,500, well over three times as much as the exact same coin (though in a different holder) realized in a Jan. 2007 Heritage auction. Furthermore, auction companies and dealers had many more customers in the 2000s than they did in the 1990s. In the early to mid 1990s, major conventions were characterized by wholesale trading and few dealers had retail customers. Dealers were speculating in regard to expected changes in market prices. By 2003, hundreds of dealers had many retail collector-clients. A rejuvenation in coin collecting occurred.
Since the mid 1990s, prices for circulated pre-1934 U.S. coins have risen as well. An 1896-S quarter in Good-04 grade was probably worth around $250 in 1998 and is worth around $1000 now. A 1908-S Indian Cent in the same grade has approximately tripled in retail price during the same time period, from $23 or so to around $69 now. Yes, there are some circulated coins that did not rise in value as much as these, and the prices of others have slid downward since the middle of 2008.
In conclusion, for almost all pre-1934 U.S. coins, and for many dating from 1934 to 1964, the number of collectors has risen dramatically since 1998. A substantial percentage of the number of serious collectors of U.S. coins are NOT over the age of fifty and circumstantial evidence demonstrates that the total number of buyers of U.S. coins valued at more than $1000 each had at least tripled from 1998 to 2008.
Related posts:
- Coin Rarities & Related Topics: Upcoming LB Auctions, PCGS Secure Plus & NGC Metallurgic Analysis
- Coin Rarities & Related Topics: Great Coins at the ANA Convention in Boston
- Coin Rarities & Related Topics: The PCGS Lawsuit Against Alleged Coin Doctors
- Coin Rarities & Related Topics: 1794 Silver Dollar, 1795 Reeded Edge Large Cent, and selected coins in the Summer FUN Auction
- Coin Rarities & Related Topics: 1793 Half Cents, Chain Cents, Wreath Cents, 1808 Quarter Eagles — one-year type coins in general
- Coin Rarities & Related Topics: Bowers & Merena auction, Proof 1876-CC dime, and $150 million for the CAC
- New Weekly Column: Coin Rarities & Related Topics
- Coin Rarities & Related Topics: Collection of Carson City Half Eagles, WPE Classic Commemoratives & Summer Coin Shows
- Coin Rarities & Related Topics: 1794 Silver Dollar sells for $1,207,500, and More Auction News
- Coin Rarities & Related Topics: Collections of Claude Davis and Brandon Smith, Coin Pricing and Government Regulation
About the Author
Greg Reynolds is a numismatic writer, researcher and analyst. Greg has examined almost all of the greatest U.S. coins and most of the finest type coins and patterns, He has extensively researched the pedigrees of important numismatic properties, and he has written about and analyzed numerous auctions, private sales and collections.
1 Comment(s)
- Tom | Aug 26, 2010 | ReplyIn absolute terms there were far more people fitting the coin-collector demographic born in the 50s and early 60’s then in years hence.
That means fewer people hitting the collecting-age sweet spot down the road. Birth rates plummeted in the 70’s and this group will start hitting 50 in 10 years. If people do wait to 50 to really start their coin spending in earnest this does not bode well for the hobby. On the other hand if as the author suggests there is an unseen wave of Gen-X and Gen-Y collectors that collect incognito, then there is hope.Well I am a gen X-er and my anecdotal observations cast serious doubt on the “underground young collector” hypothesis. That is very difficult to prove with physical evidence severely to the contrary. More is to be learned by the evidence we have actauly have to go by… #1 for me is coin show attendance, and that skews dramatically toward the older folk. Once a collector attends a show, he knows instictively that it is a superior method of trading, even to the internet.
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Edge Lettering Missing On $1
25/08/10
Edge Lettering Missing On $1
| By Ken Potter, Numismatic News August 24, 2010 |

Other News & Articles
This article was originally printed in Numismatic News.
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Native American dollars in 2010 U.S. Mint uncirculated coin sets are being found missing their edge inscriptions.
The coins involved are dollars that should have been processed further by a Schuler edge lettering machine but somehow bypassed the process completely or may have been run through it with the press assembly adjusted too light for the edge lettering die (known as a segment) to impart any inscriptions to the edges.
Starting with the 2009 issue of the Sacagawea dollars from all mints, (at which point the Mint began referring to them as Native American Dollars), not only did the Mint initiate the use of a new reverse for each year to celebrate Native American culture, but it also moved the date, mintmark and legend, “E Pluribus Unum,” from the obverse and reverse to the edge.
The quantities of “smooth edge” dollars reported so far from 2010 mint sets suggests that perhaps hundreds, maybe even over 1,000 of the Native American dollars might have escaped the Denver Mint without edge lettering, were placed into mint sets and sold to collectors. These coins differ from their circulation quality counterparts in that they are struck with dies that are specially processed to impart a satin finish to the coins while the circulation strikes exhibit a brilliant finish.
To date, only ANACS has attributed any of these coins while the Professional Coin Grading Service of Newport Beach, CA, has attributed one 2010 Native American dollar with missing edge lettering in the brilliant circulation quality finish.
Readers should keep in mind that all Sacagawea dollars dated from 2000 through 2008 have a plain edge and that this is normal for those dates.
With the introduction of the Presidential dollar coins in 2007 it was found upon the release of the first issue of the George Washington dollar, that tens of thousands, possibly even well over 100,000 of them had bypassed the edge lettering process and were shipped to distribution channels from both the Philadelphia and Denver Mints.
With the next issue, the John Adams dollar, the Philadelphia Mint again shipped thousands of pieces missing the edge inscriptions (along with an even greater numbers with double edge lettering).
The next coin in the series, the Thomas Jefferson dollar, was also released with at least 2,000 known missing the edge inscriptions. Reports for other issues have been scant with either none or fewer than a dozen known since the Mint integrated the edge lettering process into the regular production line where the dollars are struck.
However, mint set quality dollars are struck in a different area apart from the circulation quality strikes and may be more prone to bypassing the edge lettering because of this.
This is the second time in three years that collectors are reporting finding “smooth edge” dollars in such sets.
In 2008 error mint sets involved a small quantity of James Madison dollars missing edge lettering (along with some Philadelphia minted Madison dollars that were double struck in the collar) and now it involves the 2010 Native American dollars from the Denver Mint packaging. At least 11 have been reported with eight of them graded by ANACS thus far.
Ken Potter is the official attributer of world doubled dies for the Combined Organizations of Numismatic Error Collectors of America and for the National Collectors Association of Die Doubling. He also privately lists other collectible variety types on both U.S. and world coins in the Variety Coin Register. He is a regular columnist in “Numismatic News’” sister publication, “World Coin News,” where he pens the Visiting Varieties column. More information on either of the clubs, or how to get a coin listed in the Variety Coin Register may be obtained by sending a long self-addressed envelope with 61 cents postage to P.O. Box 760232, Lathrup Village, MI 48076, or by contacting him via e-mail at KPotter256@aol.com. An educational image gallery may be viewed on his website at www.koinpro.com.
Summary
There has been very little attention paid to type coin collecting in numismatic literature. Largely because there are few, if any individuals, who are truly qualified to treat type coin collecting in depth.
This article was originally printed in the latest issue of Numismatic News.
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Type collecting received a shot in the arm in terms of publicity with the publication of A Guide Book Of United States Type Coins by Q. David Bowers. The book is perhaps the first real analysis of collecting by type and in all probability it will make a significant difference in the interest in type collecting and prices of key type coins as the years go by.
In reality there has really been very little attention paid to type coin collecting in numismatic literature in large part because there are few, if any individuals, who are truly qualified to treat type coin collecting in depth. It is a simple fact of life as there are many great dealers, collectors and scholars all of whom may have nearly encyclopedic knowledge in a given area.
Having that in-depth knowledge for the entire span of U.S. coins is a very different thing and few, if any, have the qualifications of Q. David Bowers. It is natural that Bowers would be interested in type collecting as he has over the years handled literally every coin of the United States.
Such a claim may sound like hyperbole, but in Bowers case it is legitimate. Moreover, over the years he has handled most of the great collections, meaning he has not only had experience with every coin of the United States but also in most cases with the finest known example. It makes him a natural for a book on typecollecting and it makes his observations especially valuable.
Collecting and Investing Strategies for Walking Liberty Half Dollars Easy-to-understand and practical investing tactics. Buy your copy today! |
Serious discussion of type collecting has been neglected for a long time. The circulation finds generation wanted an example of every date and mintmark. It was wired into their brains by the Whitman albums they filled as kids.
However, for a long time it has really not been possible for collectors to approach collecting as they once did attempting to acquire an example of every coin issued in the history of the United States.
There are number of coins now in the group where there is only one possible in private hands such as the 1933 Saint-Gaudens double eagle, 1870-S half dime and $3, a single 1822 half eagle in private hands, the 1873-CC no arrows dime and a number of others. That means there are simply not enough of the great rarities to have many collectors attempting a complete collection at the same time.
There are other factors that make type collecting more logical today. Even though few can attempt a complete U.S. collection, it is also becoming increasingly difficult to attempt even a substantial collection for a period of a century. Back in the 1950s when people would talk about a 20th century type collection few would take it very seriously as such a collection was easy to assemble even in uncirculated grades as back in the 1950s any uncirculated Barber quarter or half dollar would suffice. Such a collection is much more difficult today as now the demanding buyer wants an MS-65 and those are not as easily found as a simple uncirculated.
While a type collection for a century has become more difficult, the individual collections possible have become even more of a problem. Today you might be able to attempt a collection of one or two major sets, but very few have the financial resources and patience to attempt all the half dollars of the United States or all the coins of the past century.
In some ways it is probably not being negative but rather realistic to suggest that the day of the truly enormous private collections like Norweb and Eliasberg is basically at an end. That does not mean there will be no great collections as there will always be great and important collections. It is simply a case where the great collections of the future are likely to be different from the great collections of the past, which were clearly an attempt to obtain one example of every date from every mint in the history of the United States. Those collections are rapidly becoming impossible, giving way to more realistic challenges such as having the nicest collection of Seated Liberty dollars or Barber quarters.
The times and the collecting patterns are changing and type collecting fits in well as a potential source of increased interest in the future. In fact, the 50-state quarters may well be a sign that a new generation of collectors while interested in collecting in a traditional manner may be even more interested in a collection that offers diversity of designs.
That diversity has always been at the root of the appeal of type collecting. Whether a type collection involves just the coins of the past century or all the coins of the United States, there is significant diversity and in attempting such a collection you are basically forced to study the coins of a period.
Certainly one major feature of the Bowers book is that it has given real credibility to type collecting, which it might have lacked in the past. There have probably been type collectors throughout U.S. history from the time someone back in 1793 looked at the reverse of a large cent and was startled to discover that it no longer had a Chain reverse but rather a Wreath. Later in the year that early observer of U.S. coins could have found still another different 1793 cent design and if they had decided to obtain one of each they might have been starting a large cent collection, but it is equally likely they were collecting by type.
Since the 1930s, the focus has been basically on acquiring an example of every coin of every date and mint. The type collection almost had a stigma of being basically ordinary coins that were easily assembled. Of course, that view assumed you were not concerned about the condition of those coins and that you were also not attempting gold coins where many early issues are difficult. In fact, even if the type collection was of the 20th century, it could be basic or it could be made more difficult by adding some coins like the 1909 VDB Lincoln cent or the 1921 Peace dollar, which are legitimately different types, but which are not included in the most basic of collections.
If the Bowers book makes a single important contribution to numismatic literature, it is that perhaps America’s most respected expert is clearly taking type collecting seriously and equally clearly pointing out that there are a number of type coins that are legitimately challenging. In fact, Bowers not only explains that some designs are tough, but includes lists of the toughest designs as well as another important piece of information regarding which types, while perhaps readily available in circulated grades, are extremely difficult in Mint State.
For example, he states, “Among type coins the 1794 and 1795 Flowing Hair half dimes, half dollars and silver dollars are scarce, but still readily available in such grades as VF or even EF. But in gem Mint State each is incredibly rare. The same can be said for most other early copper and silver issues.”
In fact, the book, which gives a description of every type, also includes charts of availability. Market value and past market performance in assorted grades. For the type collection or potential type collector it is a virtual road map as to what the challenges will be in your collection.
It might seem like a stretch to suggest that one book can make a significant difference in the market, but consider for a moment the 1796 and 1797 half dollars with a Draped Bust obverse and small eagle reverse. The combined mintage for the two years was just 3,918 pieces and of that total Bowers estimates fewer than 350 remain today, which would be well within the normal 3-10 percent some suggest as a survival rate for early issues. As Bowers suggests, “Among the design types of United States silver coins made in circulation strike format (not proof finish) this is the Holy Grail, the rarest by far.”
When you examine the availability in terms of the estimates Bowers provides as to numbers known and numbers certified you can easily see that a book such as this if it were to encourage even just a small number of collectors to consider forming a high-grade type collection it could have an enormous impact. After all, Bowers suggests that there are only a couple dozen of the 1796 and 1797 half dollars combined in Mint State and there are even doubts the number is that high with the remaining 200 to 300 examples in circulated grades.
Even in circulated grades with the number certified from AU-50 to AU-58 being no higher than the Mint State total the impact of even a few new serious collectors with substantial budgets can be understood as there is simply no supply at today’s prices of the 1796 or 1797 half dollar to meet any new demand.
What can be surprising as you read through the descriptions of various issues is that there is a significant number of issues where the numbers known in any grades are just a few hundred and even more where the numbers known in Mint State are also far too small to satisfy any new demand.
Take, for example, the first $2.50 gold piece of the United States, the 1796 without stars on the obverse. If a number of new collectors were to surface requiring the 1796 no stars quarter eagle for their collection, where would the coins be found at today’s prices as the no stars 1796 had a mintage of just 963. In fact the no stars 1796 seems to have a decent survival rate as Bowers estimates 150 to 225 in circulated grades, but the number in Mint State is put at just 20 and all but three of them are in the MS-60 to MS-62 range. Just a small number of serious new collectors could have an enormous impact when the numbers known are so small and that is the case over and over again in the early issues of the United States and especially in early gold issues.
In his analysis Bowers is also not at all timid about his views on the appropriate place for certain issues. A good example are Gobrecht dollars, which many have basically dismissed as patterns over the years. In fact, Bowers includes them as two different types with the 1836 having no stars on the obverse but stars on the reverse, while the 1839 has stars on the obverse but none on the reverse. Including the two at all is important recognition, which Bowers supports, noting in the case of the 1839, “now it is known that in 1839 the mintage of 300 coins of this type was mostly placed into circulation.”
Suffice to say with a mintage estimated at 300 even though many still survive today, the 1839 has suffered over the years as not being seen as the type coin it is and this recognition by Bowers may well change the view of many or at least suggest to some who have not really studied the situation that there are two types of Gobrecht dollars with both being tough and extremely desirable. As Bowers concludes, “The 1839 Gobrecht dollar stands today as the rarest of all types in silver,” and that statement alone could well produce additional interest in what was for many a somewhat obscure and misunderstood coin in the past.
The Gobrecht dollar is simply scarce, although among the numbers known the bulk would tend to be in better grades although that is less evident in the case of the 1836, but generally speaking it is the opposite of the situation found with most early issues.
In general for early issues of U.S. coins, the numbers known while perhaps low will be in circulated grades with VF-20 being a fairly average grade. In Mint State, however, many early issues simply are unavailable. The 1794 Liberty Cap large head facing right half cent is a good example. Once again Bowers takes a clear stand as to whether this coin should be considered a distinct type by including it as a type and if you do consider it a distinct type and not included with the other 1795 to 1797 issues you find an immediate problem. There might be 2,000 examples of this type known to exist in all grades although the number Bowers places between 1,000 and 2,000, so while available there is a severe problem if you want an example in Mint State as there the estimate is just 15 to 25 pieces, which is hardly enough to supply many with an example if new demand were to surface either from half cent or type collectors. That, while perhaps more extreme than others is typical of the real difficulty in assembling a Mint State type collection especially if you include types from the 1790s and early 1800s.
There is more than ample food for thought in some of the other information to be found in the Bowers book. Having read Q. David Bowers for more than four decades, it would be fair of me to suggest that no one has more consistently advocated purchasing the best coin you can afford. That wisdom if practiced results not only in more enjoyment from your collection but normally speaking a better return on the dollars you invest in your collection. Anyone who tried to cut corners in obtaining the best will usually find themselves wishing they had listened to Bowers and others who have preached quality over the years.
As Bowers readily admits when it comes to coins of the past century, Mint State examples are not rare. In fact, only a few issues of the 1900s would be seen as tough even in a grade such as MS-65 and the more recent the coin normally speaking the more easily it is discovered in top grade.
In his information on all the individual types we find more than ample evidence to suggest that at least in type and very probably in regular sets as well the standard of quality most would assume they want in their coins is perhaps not good enough. Certainly, in the case of most coins in U.S. history, obtaining an example in Mint State is desirable and an example in MS-65 is even better. Advanced type coin collectors might even go higher in grade if the potential exists.
What we can learn from the information in the Bowers type coin book is that realistically if you want a truly top quality type collection in some cases MS-65 is not good enough. For example, in the case of silver clad Kennedy half dollars from 1965-1970 Bowers lists the certified population at 2,508 in MS-65, but in MS-66 it is even higher at 2,811 while in MS-67 the total is 1,886. Only in MS-68 where just 132 have been certified is there a significant decrease in numbers available. Those totals would certainly suggest that if you are to buy the best you can afford when it comes to the silver clad Kennedy half dollars from 1965-1970 the coin you want is an MS-68 or at least an MS-67 and not an MS-65.
In fact the situation is hardly limited to Kennedy half dollars and it is not all that surprising as after all the current grading system comes from the 1949 Harper Brothers Early American Cents by Dr. William Sheldon and the system dealt with large cents from 1793-1814. In fact, if you counted up all the large cents from those years certified in MS-67 and above you would probably find that the total is not even equal to one year of the Kennedy silver clad half dollars or any other types currently in production and that is no surprise as the methods for production are significantly improved since 1814 and the number of collectors to save top quality example is substantially larger.
While it is easy to understand why there are more coins being produced today in top grades the fact is that if you are assembling the best possible collection of type coins, or any others for that matter, some adjustments in the grade you are seeking will be required. That shows clearly in the special section Bowers has on the 50-state quarters where he includes the grade seen most often at the grading services of each of the quarters. For example, the most often seen grades for the Delaware quarter are MS-65 and MS-66, but in the case of Texas, the grades seen most often at the grading services are MS-67 and MS-68. While it is still very early to draw conclusions for the 50-state quarters as a whole the fact is that the possibility is very real that some of the 50-state quarters will prove to be tougher than others in some grades although they all seem uniform at least for now as in the case of proofs the grade you want is at least Proof-69.
With a wealth of information about the entire history of U.S. coins, A Guide Book of United States Type Coins is a significant contribution and it might mark the point in numismatic history where a change in collector attitudes will come to be seen as a break with the full-set approach that prevailed for much of the 20th century.
Type coin collecting could become the dominant method in the 21st century, but not before the Baby Boomers hang it up.
Featured News
The Mel Fisher Maritime Museum in Key West, Florida holds the richest single collection of 17th-century maritime and shipwreck antiquities in the Western Hemisphere, including treasures and artifacts from the Atocha and Santa Margarita.
It was reported that two thieves entered a museum shortly after closing at 5PM and stole a 74.85-ounce, 11-inch (28-centimeter) gold bar which was inside a glass display case with a small opening where visitors could stick a hand inside and lift the bar to examine it.
Photo Credit: Miami Herald/Florida Keys News Bureau
Police and the FBI are working to identify the suspects who took the gold bar which had been on display for more than 20 years. Surveillance captures caught the faces of these two men, believed to be the suspects who walked off with the gold bar.
According to Alyson Crean, Key West Police spokeswoman, one suspect is described as a white male, about six feet tall with dark hair and a medium build. The second suspect is about five feet, six inches tall.
Anyone with information about these men should contact the Key West Police Department at (305) 809-1111.
The Gold bar has an estimated value of $550,000 and the Museums insurance company is offering a $10 thousand reward.
“Everybody who comes to the museum is encouraged to lift the gold bar and to have a firsthand experience with history,” said Melissa Kendrick, the museum’s executive director. “This is one of the most iconic and best-known objects in the museum.”
“The security systems worked because we knew the bar was stolen within 10 minutes, and we have usable video and photos for law enforcement,” Kendrick said. “The museum made a decision to designate this as a handling object, allowing people to touch the artifact, and this was part of the risk involved in granting public access.”
Star Spangled Banner Commemorative Coins To Be Issued in 2012
By Michael Zielinski on August 19th, 2010
On August 16, 2010, President Obama signed a bill into law, which authorizes the production of gold and silver coins to commemorate the bicentennial of the writing of the Star Spangled Banner. The coins would be issued during the calendar year starting January 1, 2012.
The bill H.R. 2097 Star-Spangled Banner Commemorative Coin Act was introduced on April 23, 2009 by Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger of Maryland. The bill was passed in the House on September 9, 2009 and then by the Senate on August 2, 2010. With the President’s approval, it has become Public Law No: 111-232.
The coins will feature designs emblematic of the War of 1812 and particularly the Battle for Baltimore, which served as the basis for Francis Scott Key’s poem “Defence of Fort McHenry.” The poem would be set to music, later be renamed “The Star Spangled Banner”, and eventually adopted as the national anthem of the United States of America. Final design selections for the coins will be made by the Secretary of the Treasury after consultation with the Maryland War of 1812 Bicentennial Commission, the Commission of Fine Arts, and the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee.
The $5 Gold coins issued under the program would be limited to 100,000, with the silver dollars limited to 500,000. Each coin would be issued in uncirculated and proof qualities, with only one US Mint facility used to strike any particular quality.
Sales prices for the Star Spangled Banner Commemorative Coins would include surcharges of $35 per gold coin and $10 per silver coin distributable to the Maryland war of 1812 Bicentennial Commission to support bicentennial activities, support outreach programs, and preserve and improve sites and structures related to the War of 1812
Summary
Dominion Grading Service announced Aug. 5 that, effective immediately, all grading and certification operations at the firm have been discontinued.
This article was originally printed in the latest issue of Numismatic News.
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Dominion Grading Service announced Aug. 5 that, effective immediately, all grading and certification operations at the firm have been discontinued.
In a statement posted on the David Lawrence Rare Coins Blog page, the following explanation was given:
“In the time since we started DGS, both PCGS and NGC have made great strides and improvements to their grading technologies and practices and we no longer feel that our services are needed. Additionally, CAC is doing a fantastic job of assessing the quality in PCGS and NGC holders.
“As for DGS, we simply do not feel that there is enough demand for collector coins at this time to merit our further investment. We have discontinued grading at DGS at this time. If you have DGS-graded coins to sell, please offer them to us for sale. We remain committed to the quality and standards of our grading at DGS and we still make two-way markets in DGS-graded coins. ”
In April 2008, DLRC launched Dominion Grading Service using the assets of the old PCI grading services they had purchased as a base. At the time John Feigenbaum said, “We had initially planned to keep the PCI brand name, but we quickly realized that it would be impossible to overcome the confusion that would ensue as we endeavor to recalibrate the [PCI] grading standards.
Therefore, we have decided to discontinue the PCI brand in favor of an all-new grading company named Dominion Grading Service.“
Resignation of PNG Member, Suspension of Another Announced
By Professional Numismatists Guild on Wednesday, August 18, 2010
Filed Under: Dealer News, Press Releases, Professionall Numismatists Guild
The Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG) has announced the resignation of one member, the suspension of another and the hiring of legal council specifically in connection with allegations of “coin doctoring” against some PNG member-dealers.
“The PNG Board has regretfully accepted the resignation of long-time member-dealer Jonathan Kern of Lexington, Kentucky. Mr. Kern was currently serving a two-year term on the PNG Board of Directors, and that position now is being filled by PNG member-dealer James A. Simek of Westchester, Illinois who had the next highest number of votes in last year’s PNG election,” said Robert Brueggeman, PNG Executive Director.
Meeting in Boston on August 8, 2010, the PNG Board ratified the suspension, effective immediately, of member-dealer Jonathan Lerner of Scarsdale, New York for non-payment of arbitration fees.
In another matter, the Board retained a lawyer to provide the Guild with legal advice specifically in connection with allegations of “coin doctoring” against several PNG member-dealers. The Guild’s legal council, Armen Vartian, is co-counsel for the plaintiffs in a lawsuit naming several PNG member-dealers among others as defendants.
“We have retained an independent legal counsel to avoid any potential conflict of interest concerning specific ‘coin doctoring’ cases involving possible breaches of the PNG Code of Ethics and possible conduct prejudicial to the organization. PNG affiliate member and attorney, Robert A. Levinson of the law firm of Levinson, Arshonsky & Kurtz, LLP in Sherman Oaks, California, will assist the Guild as we investigate these important matters,” said Brueggeman.
For additional information about the Professional Numismatists Guild, contact the PNG at 3950 Concordia Lane, Fallbrook, California 92028; by phone at (760) 728-1300, or online at www.PNGdealers.com.
Article from coinlink.com
Call to Action, IRS 1099 Reporting: Coin, Currency and Precious Metals

Nicholas Pyle, coordinates Numismatists United for Political Action. NUPA is a grassroots organization with a mission to educate and inspire the coin collecting community to stand up and be heard in Washington. To learn more about NUPA and join the group’s free grassroots outreach visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/coincollectorsunited?hl=en
Or contact Pyle at Post Office Box 3731, Georgetown Station, Washington, DC 20027-0231. Phone 202)333-8190. Email napyle@gmail.com.
Calling all collectors, dealers, vendors and others to strongly support H.R. 5141 and the companion S. 3578 the “Small Business Paperwork Mandate Elimination Act,” which if passed into law, would repeal the onerous paperwork burdens imposed on business by the ill-conceived expanded information reporting mandate contained in Section 9006 of the “Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act” (PPACA). This provision was used as an unrelated “pay for” in the PPACA and it should be rescinded based on the merits of the provision alone. Unless this section is repealed, coin currency and precious metals sellers across the nation will be subjected to the folly of data collection and information filing of IRS form 1099 on virtually all business-to-business and business-to-person transactions they make aggregating $600 or more in a year. Specifically, the provision would require any firm to file a 1099 form with each business or individual from which it purchases more than $600 in goods or services. The new requirement will take effect in 2012 unless it is repealed.
What can you do? Three things: First contact your Congressman and Senators and urge them to join the 160 cosponsors of the legislation introduced by Congressman Dan Lundgren (R-CA). Second contact both your Senators to request they join the over twenty co-sponsors of Senator Mike Johanns’ (R-NE) S. 3578.
Go to www.senate.gov or www.house.gov to find your Members of Congress and their websites. TELEPHONE 202-224-3121.
Third using the link below join the tens of thousands of businesses writing Congress on this issue critical to the survival of coin show bourse sale activity. The link will provide you with great talking points to use in contacting your members of Congress.
Congressional Activity Update
Congress went on summer break after a contentious House vote on repeal of the 1099 reporting provision and the Senate almost invoking cloture on a Small Business Package with a similar amendment. In both cases Republicans did not go along with Democratic Leadership plans because of additional measures added to repeal measures under consideration.
Senate Democrats failed to invoke cloture on a substitute amendment to their small-business lending bill, as Republicans held firm on their promise to oppose cloture without a deal on amendments. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s (D-NV) offer included votes on an amendment from Senator Mike Johanns (R-NE), to repeal a provision of the healthcare reform bill that expanded 1099 reporting for businesses; an amendment from Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, extending the research and development tax credit; and an amendment from Senate Finance ranking member Chuck Grassley extending the biodiesel tax credit.
On the other side of Capitol there actually was vote. House Republicans claimed foul when Democrats brought to the floor the GOP favored bill with a controversial pay-for, in an attempt to put the minority on the spot. The bill, introduced by New York Democratic Congressmen Scott Murphy and Bill Owens, would repeal a provision in the healthcare reform law that would expand 1099 reporting for businesses.
Democrats brought the bill to the floor on the suspension calendar, requiring a two-thirds aye vote to pass, but Republicans withheld support on grounds the bill was brought to the floor on short notice. They also object to the pay-for, which would raise about $19 billion by closing foreign tax loopholes.
Ways and Means ranking member Dave Camp (R-MI) offered the repeal provision as a motion to recommit on a tax and infrastructure bill that was pulled from the House floor in late July. The motion’s pay-for would have struck the entire tax bill, and its pay-for would come from reigning in the overpayment of healthcare subsidies. Camp cited opposition to closing the foreign tax credits by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the National Association of Manufacturers, who argue the pay-for amounts to a tax increase on U.S. multinational companies.
Ways and Means Chairman Sander Levin (D-MI) said the issue was simple and gave Republicans a choice of voting for the bill to help small businesses “or keep a tax loophole that ships jobs overseas.” There was last-minute appeal by the National Federation of Independent Business to pass the bill.
The move to bring the bill up on short notice drew anger from Representative Dan Lungren (R-CA). Lungren, who sponsored healthcare-repeal legislation in April, said he has “never had that discourtesy done to me before.” “I’ve tried to be bipartisan on this,” Lungren said. “If [Democrats] want to stick it to us, they could do it by at least telling us ahead of time.”
IRS to Exempt Credit Card Transaction from IRS 1099 Reporting
Excerpt from Prepared Remarks of IRS Commissioner Douglas H. Shulman Before the American Payroll Association and the American Accounts Payable Association, May 27, 2010.
“Congress also recently passed a new information reporting provision requiring expanded information reporting on payments made from businesses to corporations, and on payments businesses make for goods. This new information reporting requirement applies if businesses pay a single entity $600 or more per year in aggregate for these types of transactions starting in 2012.
While businesses do not need to file information returns on these payments until January of 2013, business groups – particularly those that represent small businesses – have raised concerns about the burden that this new provision may impose. I want to assure the business community that the IRS will look for opportunities to minimize burden and avoid duplicative reporting. That is why we will be spending the next several months soliciting input from businesses of all types and sizes before proposing regulations to implement the law. We will also look to service providers who help those businesses understand and adapt to new laws and regulations, to help us craft a process that is as efficient as possible. We know that there is no “one-size-fits-all,” so we want to hear your ideas.
At the risk of getting ahead of the game, I wanted to share with you just one example of how we are analyzing this provision, and looking for opportunities to streamline implementation and minimize burden. We plan to use our administrative authority to exempt from this new requirement business transactions conducted using payment cards such as credit and debit cards. These transactions will already be covered by reporting requirements on payment card processors, so there is no need for businesses to report them as well. So, whenever a business uses a credit or debit card, there will be no new burden under the new law.
I realize that this exemption covers a specific set of transactions, and you probably have lots more questions. But I share this idea with you as an example of where we are headed, not as a complete implementation plan. For that we will look forward to dialog and input from the business community in the coming months. As we proceed with our planning, we won’t hesitate to consider alternate approaches, including working with Congress to address any potential implementation issues that may arise during this process.”








