What do you think is going to happen with the spot price of precious metals? Was this weeks pull back from profit taking, gold being over bought or something else?
Which one do you like the best short term (30-45days) and for the rest of this year. I like silver and palladium. Right now the premiums are lowest on these which is what makes them more attractive to me. Physical demand is still very strong for all types of metals which should keep premiums higher on gold and platinum coins then in the past. Proof of this demand is the 2009 1 oz silver Chinese Pandas are already sold out at the China Mint. Their annual mintage is 600,000. The U.S. Mint continues to allocate 1 oz gold and silver eagles. 2009 fractional eagle are not yet being minted.
Leave your comments to let us know what you think. Please write in a semi business like fashion and we will be happy to post them.
First State Depository announces relationship with New Direction, self-directed IRA administrator
First State Depository
First State Depository Company, LLC, a private coin and precious metals depository company, announced that it has developed a relationship with Entrust New Direction IRA, a self-directed IRA administrator, to provide depository services for clients interested in holding gold and other precious metals in their self-directed IRA and other tax-sheltered plans.Entrust New Direction IRA, part of The Entrust Group, one of the nation’s largest self-directed IRA providers, administers a variety of IRA, 401(k) and HSA accounts, which can purchase precious metal investments.
[ Read Full Article]
Gold coin shortage as demand soars
Financial Times, UK
The rush by retail investors into bullion coins is creating shortages as mints across the world struggle to meet the surge in demand, dealers and mint officials say. The scarcity is lifting coin premiums to as much as 5 per cent above the spot gold price, a level reached briefly after the collapse of Lehman Brothers last September, when coin shortages also surfaced.
[ Read Full Article]
U.S. man arrested in gold-bullion Ponzi case
Reuters
NEW YORK (Reuters) – A man accused of running a multimillion-dollar Ponzi scheme in which investors were told their deposits were backed by offshore gold bullion reserves was arrested on Tuesday, nearly seven years after his operation shut down and he moved to Mexico, authorities said. David Copeland Reed, 38, was charged with conspiracy, money laundering and wire fraud in an indictment unsealed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, prosecutors and the FBI said.
[ Read Full Article]
Gold Most Favored Investment This Year, World Gold Council Says
Bloomberg
Gold is the most favored investment this year ahead of investment-grade bonds and other assets, according to a survey of investment advisers, the producer-funded World Gold Council said. About 60 percent of the 31 advisers surveyed in Europe expect investors to take fewer risks this year compared with 2008, while about 30 percent expect investors to be less risk averse, the London-based council said today in a report. Almost 60 percent expect better market conditions this year.
[ Read Full Article]
Why Silver Is Money
By: Jason Hommel, Silver Stock Report
I’m very honored to be here. My name is Jason Hommel. I’m the Editor of the Silver Stock Report. This last year, I started dealing in silver, selling silver, at www.seekbullion.com and I learned a lot more about the silver trade. My speech today is on why silver is money, even though no nation on earth uses silver as money. In other words, my speech is on why 99.9% of humanity is wrong, and why you are right! The words that mean “money”, and the words that mean “silver” are the same in most Romance languages. Silver is the only real money that there is.
[ Read Full Article]
Silver; Past, Present, Future
Theodore Butler’s Speech at the Phoenix Silver Summit 2009
Good afternoon and thank you for being here. It’s an honor to get to speak with so many interested in silver, especially at such an interesting time in history. I’m going to ramble a bit, and try not to get too detailed and save some time for questions where you can get specific. I’d like to acknowledge a few people who are not here that had an awful lot to do with me being here today. First, I’d like to thank Jim Cook, from Investment Rarities in Minneapolis, for his sponsorship of my work for more than eight years. It was this support that enabled me to devote all my time to studying and contemplating everything I could about silver.
[ Read Full Article]
Gold: More Strength on the Way
by Mary Anne and Pamela Aden
Gold shot up, reaching a nearly one year high today, and rapidly approaching its record high area. The ongoing current A rise that started last November is the strongest in this bull market and the strongest since 1999. Since this is an abnormally strong ‘A’ rise in an abnormal world recession, if gold reaches a new record high above $1004, gold will most likely be embarking on the start of a great bull market rise.
[ Read Full Article]
Gold Consolidation Continues
by Joe Battaglia – Goldline
In early trading this morning as we await testimony from Fed Chairman Bernanke, we see gold down $10 and silver down $.10. Bernanke’s prepared statements indicate if the Congress and the Administration take the correct steps the recession may end this year and 2010 will be a year of recovery. However, he said it would take several years to return to some kind of a normal economy. Bernanke’s hopeful forecast contains a number of caveats, the main one being that officials must successfully break what he called an “adverse feedback loop” in which economic and financial strains become self-reinforcing.
[ Read Full Article]
Articles provided by coinlink.com
Yesterday, February 25th, 2009 the Chinese Mint announced that they have reach the 600,000 limit on 2009 1 oz silver Chinese Pandas. Look for prices to increase. J&T Coins LLC still has a very limited supply of them for purchase.
The rush by retail investors into bullion coins is creating shortages as mints across the world struggle to meet the surge in demand, dealers and mint officials say.
The scarcity is lifting coin premiums to as much as 5 per cent above the spot gold price, a level reached briefly after the collapse of Lehman Brothers last September, when coin shortages also surfaced. More
A Distortion in the Gold Market Could Make You 200% This Year
By Dan Ferris, editor, Extreme Value
Have you tried to buy gold coins or bars in the last few months? If so, you already have a good idea of the “distortion” I’m going to tell you about today. Right now, the premiums on gold bullion coins and small gold bars have shot up to as much as 15%-20%, sometimes more. That’s if you can find any to buy. The reason: “Large purchases of coins are perhaps the ultimate sign of safe-haven gold buying,” said John Reade, a precious-metals strategist at UBS. I said the same thing to a MarketWatch reporter who called me up several weeks ago to talk about gold bullion. If this were a full-on, mom-and-pop gold mania, it’d be a sign of the top. But this is different.
[ Read Full Article]
Market Uncertainty to Boost Gold Investment Demand
Wall Street Journal
Global financial-market uncertainty will likely continue underpinning investment demand for gold, the primary factor that boosted overall demand for the metal to more than $100 billion last year, an industry group said Wednesday. “We’re looking for continued strong investment demand…for as long as the economy remains in pretty dire circumstances,” George Milling-Stanley, official-sector director with the World Gold Council, told Dow Jones Newswires in an interview. His comments came in conjunction with the quarterly Gold Demand Trends report released Wednesday by the WGC, a marketing organization funded by gold mining companies.
[ Read Full Article]
Little Recovery in Platinum Market Owing to Crisis
Reuters
Impala Platinum (IMPJ.J), the world’s No. 2 producer of the metal, posted a 14 percent rise in headline earnings to 8.77 rand per share for the first half despite lower output, but warned of weak demand ahead. Impala Platinum’s (Implats) earnings were boosted mainly by a weaker rand against the U.S. dollar during the six months to end December, but the group said production and cost performance had been “extremely disappointing”. Total platinum production for the group fell 14.8 percent to 878,000 ounces. This lower output and ongoing inflation resulted in unit costs rising by 36.9 percent to 8,681 rand per platinum ounce, the company said.
[ Read Full Article]
Silver Is Information
Gold Eagle
The collapse of banks, currencies and the markets is not a failure of Biblically sound free market capitalism, because that has never existed. Rather, the collapse is a failure of fraudulent paper money systems based on usury. Usury is not “excessive” interest. Usury is not “excessive” profits. Usury is any interest on a loan. Any interest on a loan is excessive because of the mathematical insanity of compounding interest, or exponential growth of even 1% per year. If you invested an ounce of gold at 1/3 of 1%, 6000 years ago, you’d own all 5 billion ounces of gold in the world, and if you invested it at just over 2%, you’d own about all the atoms in the entire universe, it would all be gold, and it would all belong to you.
[ Read Full Article]
Gold Amid Inflation and Deflation
SafeHaven
“Inflation and deflation are both a crisis in money. Which leaves gold as a secure store of wealth against both monetary panics…” THE 1970s DIDN’T JUST curse the world with cheap German wine and the Bay City Rollers. That decade gave us soaring inflation, too. Gold’s stellar run up to $850 per ounce, rising more than 24 times over, also came in the ’70s. So gold, therefore, must deliver its strongest returns when the cost of living shoots higher. Right?
[ Read Full Article]
provided by coinlink.com
By CoinLink on Thursday, February 19, 2009
Filed Under: Coin News Daily
PCGS and New Zealand Mint Establish Coin Certification Agreement
PCGS
A new international partnership has been established between the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) and the New Zealand Mint, one of the first world mints to adopt the .9999 standard for gold coin purity. Under the agreement PCGS will grade selected examples of the mint’s new commemorative and bullion issues, such as the gold Kiwi bullion coins, and will establish a submission center at the mint in Auckland, New Zealand for the convenience of local collectors and dealers to submit coins for PCGS certification.
[ Read Full Article]
SEC charges Stanford companies with massive fraud
Forbes
Federal regulators are charging R. Allen Stanford and three of his companies with a “massive” fraud that centered around high-interest-rate CDs. The Securities and Exchange Commission’s complaint, filed in federal court in Dallas, alleges that Stanford International Bank sold about $8 billion of so-called certificates of deposit to investors by promising “improbable and unsubstantiated high interest rates.”
CoinLink Editors Note: The Financial Times listed companies under the Stanford Umbrella including Stanford Coin & Bullion. How any asset freeze will effect customers of SCB is yet to be determined.
[ Read Full Article]
PCGS Grades First Submitted 2009 Ultra High Relief $20 MS70
PCGS
The first new 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin was certified by Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) on Friday, February 13. It was graded Mint State 70. “We were thrilled to examine the first submitted example of this eagerly anticipated modern masterpiece. It’s one of the finest designs ever created for United States coinage and a testament to the excellence of the United States Mint,” said Don Willis, President of PCGS, a division of Collectors Universe, Inc. (NASDAQ: CLCT). The coin was submitted by collector Charles Camp of Savannah, Georgia who said he was thrilled with the certification: “I’ve always been a big admirer of PCGS, and I think it’s a great thing.”
[ Read Full Article]
Virginians Are First to Get William Henry Harrison Presidential $1 Coins
US Mint
As the Nation paused to observe Presidents Day, the United States Mint launched the William Henry Harrison Presidential $1 Coin in a ceremony today at the Berkeley Plantation, the former President’s home. Participants at the event were the first in the Nation to get the new $1 coin, which goes into circulation on February 19. “We honor William Henry Harrison today – our Nation’s ninth President,” United States Mint Deputy Director Andy Brunhart told the crowd.
[ Read Full Article]
THE SWITCH IS TURNED ON!
By Laura Sperber – Legend Numismatic Market Report
We have always marveled how there is what seems to be an instant “on/off” switch with the collecting public. Immediately after FUN, that switch went off and stayed off for at least three full weeks. People mostly blew their wads at that show or came out just to get a feel for the market. At Long Beach the switch was definitely flickering on/off. As we mentioned, the collecting public surprisingly turned out there (they had been absent for the past several shows) and they started to spend a little. We sensed hope, and life was returning to a more normal buying pattern for collectors.
[ Read Full Article]
ANA Summer Seminar 2009 Features More Choices, New Classes and Instructors
NGC
The ANA’s valuable educational opportunity has exciting first-time offerings for 2009, as well as the time-honored features the Seminar is known for. The 41st annual Summer Seminar in Colorado Springs will offer students a menu of two-day and five-day classes, introduce a number of new courses that reflect current trends in the hobby, and feature several new instructors, recognized as leaders in the hobby.
[ Read Full Article]
‘Technicolor’ Note Stars in NY Auction
By Bank Note Reporter
Bringing $47,000 was a Series 1905 “Technicolor” $20 Gold Certificate, Fr. 1170, Serial No. A404312, as part of Spink Smythe’s “The Collector’s Series” sale, Jan. 15-17, in New York. Graded PCGS Gem New 66 PPQ, the note was described as “One of the most desirable types not only because of it relative scarcity in any grade, but even more so because of the beautiful array of colors used in its printing.” The note came from a small hoard of 25 notes owned by William Philpott, who purchased them from a friend at the Treasury Department.
[ Read Full Article]
Fool’s Gold
by JP Bender
“A fool and his money are soon parted.” It’s a proverb that goes back at least to the 16th century.
The modern version is, “a fool and his gold are soon parted.” That appears to be the business model for a company called Cash4Gold.
Cash4Gold is an LLC (Limited Liability Company, which is something like a cross between a corporation and a limited partnership). It’s based in Pompano Beach, at 1701 Blount Road.
As a rule, corporations and LLCs do not make public who their owners are, so, as is true with most LLCs, its background and history is a bit blurry. It was created in April 2007 as Cash4Gold, LLC. Last October it changed its name to Green Bullion Financial Services, LLC, and registered Cash4Gold as a fictitious name.
A slick advertising campaign
Up to that point, few people had heard of the company. But then things changed. Someone decided to wage a slick ad campaign for the company on late night TV, and on the internet. The now financially challenged Ed McMahon, and Stanley Kirk Burrell (whom you probably know better as MC Hammer), were hired as celebrity promoters. A company called Albar Precious Metal Refining, Inc., an Illinois corporation, bought a very expensive ad slot with the Super Bowl. The ad was on behalf of Cash4Gold.
Not many people had heard of that name before the Super Bowl, but that ad, which was telecast around the world, has put Cash4Gold on the map. Now that company is on a lot of radars, and a lot of people have flocked to the local post office to mail them their gold.
Keep in mind that Super Bowl ads are super expensive, because there is such a huge audience – and companies compete to have their ad labeled as the “best” one. This brings in such big gun advertisers as PepsiCo, with its top rated Doritos ad, and Anheuser-Busch, whose Budweiser ad was ranked 2nd. Other top rated ads promoted Coca Cola and Diet Pepsi. Other big name advertisers included AT&T, Audi, Clorox, GEICO, H&R Block, Kellogg, NBC, Radio Shack, Sony, Toyota, and Volkswagen. With such well-known and trusted names, a certain level of credibility attaches to all Super Bowl advertisers.
According to TNS Data Research, there were 258 Super Bowl ads, of which 58 were NBC promotionals, and one was the Bridgestone half time show – that couldn’t have been cheap. According to Reuters, the starting price for a 30 second ad was $3 million.
About five minutes into the amazingly exciting and contentious fourth quarter, there was the ad purchased by Albar Precious Metal Refining, Inc., promoting Cash4Gold.com – and suddenly everyone in the world knew this tiny company.
State records reflect that Albar, Green Bullion, and Cash4Gold are all located at 1701 Blount Road, Suite A, and that the name Cash4Gold belongs to Green Bullion. That raises an interesting question – why did Albar pay for the Cash4Gold ad, when Albar doesn’t seem to have a direct relationship with Cash4Gold – or does it?
Name infringement
There’s another interesting twist – there is already a Jacksonville company which uses the fictitious name Cash 4 Gold (a few spaces added to the name), and that was registered in December 2006, before the Pompano Beach Cash4Gold was created. That means Pompano’s Cash4Gold is using the name illegally, and the Jacksonville company could force the Pompano version to cease and desist, and probably also get a judgment for damages. The owner of the earlier fictitious name is International Gold Market, LLC, created in August 2006. That could be an interesting investigation, but for now let’s stay focused on Pompano’s dirty little secret.
The principals
Green Bullion Financial Services appears to be run by Jeff Aronson, its CEO. Its president is Howard Mofshin.
Interestingly, the Illinois corporation’s CEO is also Jeff Aronson, and its president is also Howard Mofshin. Albar, the Illinois company has a vice president, Jerome Kornbluth. And everyone is located at 1701 Blount Road.
How it works
I sort of wondered how a company that buys scrap gold could afford a Super Bowl ad. So I called them.
When I first called, I talked with somebody who used the name ‘Winston,’ and who would not give me his last name. I asked for basic information and how the process worked. He must have been a new telemarketing employee because he hesitated, paused and used more ‘ahs’, ‘you-know’s, and ‘hums’ than Caroline Kennedy used during her ill-fated New York Senate campaign.
‘Winston’ did manage to give me a number of answers, and promised to send me a lot of information, along with a mailer to use if I wanted to send in my ‘junk gold.’ Winston, while a little confused, made the sell sound great on the surface: you pack up all your old jewelry – stuff you’ll never wear again – into an free pre-paid postage envelope, provided by the company, and send it to Cash4Gold. The package is insured, as a part of the prepaid postage, but for only $100. That’s a trap, as you will soon see.
They examine the contents, and cut you a check for “the value of the gold”; and that is the end of process. Presumably if you accept the check, they melt down the gold and sell it. It sounds better than going to a pawnshop – the process is simple and requires no personal interaction with an appraiser – so what could go wrong?
A scam?
I instantly started doing some Internet research, and soon learned that there are even BLOGS out there with comments about this company, and not much of what is being reported is very kind. I have taken the time to communicate with some writers on the BLOGS – both former employees and some very unsatisfied customers.
They tell a sordid story of ripoffs, outright lying to the public, and bonus money for employees who cheat the customers with an organized pattern of deceit, to maximize profits at customer expense. And it’s all taking place right here in Pompano Beach. That’s right &ldots; it looks like Pompano Beach is about to make the national headlines again.
During my online sleuthing, I found that I’m not the only one who figures that if Cash4Gold has this much money to spend on TV ads, someone’s getting the short end of the stick, and it’s probably the people sending in their family heirlooms to be melted into ingots.
According to their website, the folks at Cockeyed.com put Cash4Gold to the test, rounding up a bunch of old rings, necklaces, and earrings, and taking them to a regular pawnshop to be appraised. Christopher Null, a Yahoo blogger, writes that they were offered $198 for the entire lot. They then sent the items to Cash4Gold and waited for a check in the mail. It arrived within a few days as promised … in the amount of $60. You don’t have to accept the check; because the deal isn’t done until you cash it.
Null says, “that price alone is practically criminal, but that’s where the truly slimy part of the operation begins. First, according to one of my sources, if you call Cash4Gold and ask for your stuff back, you abruptly get a better offer. In the case of the above experiment, the offer was a whopping $178. That’s a better deal, but still not market rate, though the caller was told that Cash4Gold could ‘manipulate the numbers on their end,’ to make it appear that more product was sent than was in reality.” That statement suggests strange business practices – but it’s probably the only way Cash4Gold can cover itself to convince you the original offer wasn’t a wholesale ripoff.
As bad as that practice is,” says Null, “it’s far worse if you opt for the company’s ‘Fast Cash’ option. Here, that original offer ($60) would have been wired into your bank account within 24 hours of them receiving the booty. It sure is fast, and it’s not much cash – and you don’t have the option of declining the offer at all. You’re stuck with a pittance for your valuable gold items. (It’s also worth noting that a publicist working for Cash4Gold later offered Cockeyed cash (allegedly without Cash4Gold’s involvement) for removing its expose from the web.)”
As a side note, another website offers an in-depth exposé on how the system works, this time analyzed from the inside by an individual who claims to be a former employee. Here it is outlined how the company offers bonuses to phone operators who can convince you to accept a lower offer and how the company attempts to delay payments as long as possible. It’s also worth a look if, despite the red flags, you’re considering sending stuff to Cash4Gold anyway and haggling for a better deal:
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/cash4gold-c117648.html
A smelter in Pompano Beach?
Melting down gold, or any other metal other than mercury, requires a significant amount of heat. For gold, that temperature is 1,948° Fahrenheit (a bit lower for gold alloys such as 18K and 14K gold). The temperature has to be raised significantly above the melting point in order to pour the liquid metal before it hardens. It would take a big fire to get to gold’s melting point, so smelting requires a furnace or some other high heat source, and a crucible. Some industrial smelters use a microwave furnace.
Because of the high temperatures, smelting is dangerous, so safety equipment is also required. Impurities may include mercury (which makes smelting a health hazard unless the mercury is first distilled out), copper, silver, iron, sulfur, and other elements. Chemical and other methods are used to separate gold alloys from impurities, and these can be dangerous unless safety equipment and safe methods are used.
There has to be a smelter at some point in the gold extraction process, so I contacted an associate in Pompano Beach to drive over to the Blount Road address and snoop around for me. He is licensed, knowledgeable, and streetwise. He sent me the following e-mail:
JP -
Just drove over to 1701 Blount Road, #A. It is a nondescript one-story building in an office plaza on Blount Road. There is only the address on the two glass (darkened) doors. I parked in a small lot where the following 2 cars were parked: Toyota Tacoma (Fla. Tags ######) and Ford F150 (Fla. Tags ######).
There is a side door near a loading dock. It reads “Albar” and notes delivery hours are from 8:30a.m. – 3:30p.m., Monday–Friday. Immediately a white male, mid-late-50’s in age, shaved head, 5’3″, portly, tattoos all over both arms, wearing a work shirt with the name “Jerry” came out and asked my what I doing there. I explained that I was looking for “Powerline Products” at that address. He said he had never heard of the outfit. I guessed it may have been an old address and walked over to some of the local businesses to make it look good. The man was a little suspicious, but not hostile.
There is a sign from Blount Road directing people to other businesses in the office complex at 1721 Blount Road, but nothing for Gold4Cash, Albar, or 1701 Blount Road. There were security cameras all over the parking lot where I parked, but that is probably a good idea in that area.
Some jurisdictions require compliance with zoning regulations and special permits for smelters, and metal recyclers, such as Albar, must have a recycling permit from the Florida Department of Natural Resources.
I asked Mayor Lamar Fisher if there are any smelters in Pompano Beach. He investigated, and said there is none registered with the City. Turns out that Pompano does not have a ‘smelter’ category. According to Zoning Director, Robin Byrd, Albar made a proper application, disclosing they melted down unwanted metals, but the Occupational License division licensed them as a manufacturer. I was unable to get through to DNR to check on them.
From all evidence it appears that Green Bullion (doing business under its fictitious name of Cash4Gold) advertises to consumers, and later transfers the unwanted jewelry to a related recycling company.
For what it’s worth, mailers before the Super Bowl were preaddressed to the 1701 Blount Road address. Now they have been changed, and now use Post Office Box 66-8758, a ‘Pompano Beach’ post office located in Margate.
Some bloggers claiming to be former employees complain of strong chemicals in the air, indicating that some chemical treatment is going on in the Pompano Beach facility.
Turns out there are two businesses located at 1701 Blount Road.
The Albar Connection
Albar, the Illinois corporation, has a website, where it proudly proclaims its new location in Pompano Beach, complete with pictures of a rotary furnace, capable of running a ton of low grade material every two hours. Gold, it says, is chemically refined, and there is a picture of vats in which the gold is presumably refined.
In one place it lists its Illinois address as 740 Waukegan Road, Deerfield, IL, but a news item on the website suggests that the company moved to Pompano Beach in March (2008?). Pompano Beach occupational license records indicate that Albar came to Pompano Beach in 2005.
The Albar website also proclaims “Albar Launches Cash4Gold”, suggesting that Albar in fact owns the LLC. That does seems likely, in view of Albar’s corporate structure – Albar was incorporated in Illinois in August 2001, and its president was Jeff Aronson until 2008, when he became CEO and Howard Mofshin became president. Yes, same names as those in Cash4Gold.
According to the Albar website: “Cash4gold.com guarantees 5% more cash than our largest competitor. We are able to make this commitment because we are the refiner and you can by-pass the middleman. We are passing the savings right back to you, the general public.”
There could be some doubt as to the accuracy of that claim.
Illegal activity?
Is it possible that Cash4Gold is involved in an illegal activity?
It has been claimed, “The highest attainment of organized crime is control of the local government.” I immediately hooked up with a top law enforcement officer in South Florida to discuss this Cash4Gold business. My contact has always been reliable and doesn’t take crime lightly. We have always had a good working relationship.
I was told this business has not escaped the attention of those who are responsible for such matters. I was also told, “Interesting that you are interested in writing about this place. We have been looking at it for sometime because they are apparently in violation of a law that deals with ‘2nd hand businesses’.
“Interestingly, pawn shops are the most vocal complainants about this place because we check them frequently and pawn shops have a high degree of compliance. But the 2nd hand business designation is so vast that we just can’t check them all. Not even close.
“The Broward State Attorney’s Office has been looking at this business but has not reached a decision yet. I will try to move that forward a bit with the new information you’ve provided.”
From a law enforcement perspective, the jury’s still out.
A whistle blower?
Another individual, who claims to be a former employee of Cash4Gold, has posted his experiences on a BLOG Complaint Board in mid-January (www.complaintsboard.com/complaints\cash4gold-c117648):
“I would like an article to be posted pertaining to the refinery Cash 4 Gold, located in Pompano Beach, Florida. I am a former employee, who would like to alert/warn the public on the scamming process involved with this company. There are many of us who would like to vouch on behalf of this fast growing scam. We would like to get the word out to everyone on this step-by-step scam that involves so many people in this country and their valuables.
“Below I have attached the full details on the scam involving this company. We know this first hand, because this is how we were trained. Please take note of this information and do what you can to get the word out there, especially in a time when the economy has truly affected everyone for the worst.
“I am a former employee of Cash 4 Gold. I did not know much about the company before being hired. On my first day of being hired, I was taught the ‘Cash 4 Gold Scam’ from beginning to end:
“1. The ‘refiner’s pack’ that is used for you to put your jewelry, is ‘insured for up to $100 dollars,’ according to how much they determine from a description from you, the worth of your items to be, not an actual fully researched appraisal.
“2. We receive your ‘Refiner’s Pack’ within 3-4 days, but we are instructed to tell customers that it takes ‘7-10 business days’ for us to receive your pack, although many times your package has already arrived. (All cash4gold customers who have called customer service to track a package can vouch for this).
”3. Your jewelry gets appraised by hand, a magnifying glass, a plastic container, a small weight pad, and a bottle of ORANGISH fluid, which your items are then determined a value for. Not million-dollar equipment or specially trained jewelry experts. The company was temporarily closed recently due to health and code violations. I have witnessed testers being transported to Medical Centers, due to the testing department environment. There is literally a cloud of smoke in the air from acid and other testing material. If you were thinking it was some state of the art testing facility, you thought wrong.
”4. Although the payment (check) for your item is dated within 24 hrs of testing your jewelry, we sometimes do not actually send out the check until up to 3-4 days later. (If you are a customer check the date the check was issued against the stamped date on the envelope.)
”5. We do offer a 100 percent Satisfaction Guarantee or your jewelry returned, but the catch is, that the guarantee is to contact us within 10 days from when your check is dated. (This begins with the time it took for the accounts payables department to issue the check and also including the transit time for you to receive your check in the mail.”
“*** NOTE THE COMMERCIALS THAT INSINUATE THAT YOU GET YOUR CASH IN 24 HRS.*** However, if you request (sign) for FAST CASH (direct deposit) you automatically WAIVE your rights to have your items returned, EVEN if you are not satisfied with amount of your deposit.
“6. You generally receive your check around the ‘7th-10th’-business day, AND a majority of the time customers are outraged when they lay eyes on the amount of their check. Some customer’s even receive a check for 0.01 cents.
”7. There have been times when we have received your package and MISPLACED or LOST it at the facility. We CLAIM to not have received the items and even try to convince you that it was lost in the hands of USPS. At which point we begin an insurance claim process on your package. We ask you to send us an itemized list of the content of the package, trying to be as descriptive as you possible can (if you can remember everything in full detail) and a copy of your state issued ID.
“We then issue an INSURANCE CLAIM for UP TO $100 dollars. GOD FORBID, if your items are worth more then a $100 dollars. If you call customer service to check on the status of your shipment, and we actually have not received your package, we inform you of the insurance claim process. For those who know that their items are worth more than a hundred dollars, they become very upset and threaten to take action against the company, at that point we inform the customer that if they knew their items were worth more they should have added additional insurance at the Post Office. BUT unless you are paying to ship your items in a completely different package other then the refiner’s kit, you are unable to add insurance to the package.
“8. For those who do get in touch with us within the allotted time frame, we already know what you are calling about. Customers want their items returned, because there check amount is so insultingly LOW. The first thing, a Representative will ask you is ‘HOW MUCH WERE YOU EXPECTING TO GET BACK?’ This way we can know how much to ‘BONUS’ you.”
According to the writer, “the definition of a BONUS: We issue low checks just to have you call us back if you are smart enough to realize that you just got scammed. For the smart one’s we are paid to offer them a bonus up to 3 times the original amount of your check and you accept.
“For example: Sally Smith receives a check for $27.86 for a Rolex watch (which we don’t issue value for), a class ring, a ring with diamond chips, a pair of earrings with emeralds, as well as a few sterling silver pieces, and maybe a few items that were really of no value. Now Sally Smith calls the customer service department, where she speaks to a representative who seems so concerned and will see if she can do better with the amount by speaking to a ‘SUPERVISOR’. We then place the caller on Mute, and speak to our neighbors or doodle on a sheet, or twiddle with our hair for about 45 seconds, while we are supposedly speaking to our supervisor about Ms. Smith’s complaint.
“We then come back with an offer to ‘BUMP UP YOUR MELT DATE’ or any other lies the customer service representative can think of, and offer you a total amount of $53.20 which is a little under double the amount of your original check; in which case if you accept, the customer service representative makes a $15 bonus off of your transaction. If the customer service representative offers you under triple the amount of your original check, he/she makes $10 in bonuses.
“9. If you accept the offer, the deal is done, and you are told that the call is recorded (which most of the time, the record button does not work, or the box is full.) It’s just a way to make your feel bound by a verbal contract. If you do not accept the deal, you have to return your check, and it takes sometimes up to a month to receive your items back after we receive the check.
“10. If you only want the items that we do not find of any value back, you have to pay $10 shipping and handling fee to have your own items returned, which varies. Although it is listed under the terms and conditions, this charge varies from a $10-$15 charge to NO charge, reason being, UNSURE.”
The blogger clearly does not trust Cash4Gold, and goes on to say, “You are almost better off taking your items to a local pawnshop or shopping around for other companies. With the economy the way it is, Cash4Gold seems to be a way out of financial stress for some, but in actuality becomes a stress of its own. I would advise you to think twice before sending in valuables or items inherited and of sentimental value, it’s not worth it.”
Fallout
One unsatisfied customer said she wanted to get 1,000 of the prepaid envelopes and send up to a pound of dirt in the packages. She knew it would be wrong, but it would cost the company a lot of money and it would be a way to show her disgust. Probably just as well she didn’t do that. The company uses mailers bar-coded with the name of the person who requested it, so it would never be an anonymous mailing.
On the internet, there are enough sad stories about this operation to fill a book. Several law enforcement agencies claim to be looking at the Cash4Gold operation in Pompano, but (assuming the internet anecdotes are true) apparently lack the investigative skills necessary to result in an arrest.
While I haven’t found any complaints about the Jacksonville company, I did find a Cash 4 Gold in Lakewood, Colorado, with complaints against it; another one in Raleigh, North Carolina; yet another one in Huntington Beach, California.
There was even a lawsuit in Los Angeles by CJ Environmental vs. Cash4Gold, LLC – seems our local Cash4Gold is accused of using CJ’s web design for their own website. The case is still open, because Cash4Gold’s lawyers successfully got the case transferred to Florida (because the defendant, Cash4Gold, is located in Florida).
Caveat emptor
The obvious thought is caveat emptor, which means let the buyer beware. In this case, the consumer is the seller. I’m not sure what the Latin phrase is for that, but it is certainly good advice that unsuspecting consumers may be getting ripped off, getting a small fraction of the actual value of their scrap jewelry.
So I guess the best advice is do your homework, because “Cash4Gold and other gold-buying companies could be ripoffs – check it out at http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/118748.”
Article from flsentry.com
Silver dollars at the back of vault survived
February 17, 2009
by By Paul M. Green
The impact of the Pittman Act of 1918 on the supplies of silver dollars today can never be overlooked. In one brief period a total of 270,232,722 silver dollars were melted, with the bulk of the silver being shipped to India.
It could have been worse. The Pittman Act actually authorized the melting of up to 350 million silver dollars. That said, 270 million silver dollars is a significant number as it probably represented 50 percent or more of the number in vaults at the time.
We have no choice but to live with the fact that all those dollars are gone forever from the market. What has historically made the matter difficult is that there was never an accounting of what numbers of what dates were actually melted. It has produced some surprises along the way, and for some they have been costly surprises.
It must be remembered that for decades collectors had very little knowledge about the supplies of most Morgan dollars. There were hundreds of millions of Morgans in the vaults and no one was providing any information as to what dates they were. Additionally, there were the better than 270 million that had been destroyed. The problem was that if a date was tough, no one knew if that meant it had been melted or if it was simply yet to be paid out from the vaults.
New Orleans dates proved to be the classics of “rare yesterday, common today.” The 1898-O, 1903-O and 1904-O were all tough. The assumption by many at the time, however, was that the three had all been basically destroyed under the provisions of the Pittman Act. Certainly that was possible, and the three became key dates. The 1903-O was actually the key Mint State Morgan dollar in the late 1950s and early 1960s at a price of around $1,500.
Then in November of 1962 the 1903-O suddenly began to emerge from the Treasury by the bag. The estimates vary, although it was probably at least 200,000 examples. Suddenly the 1903-O was readily available at about $15 and not $1,500. The same thing happened to a lesser degree with the 1898-O and 1904-O.
Ironically, despite the fact that large numbers of the three previously tough dates emerged, there is reason to believe that some numbers of each of the date had been melted under the Pittman Act. All three dates had mintages in the millions, and the numbers that emerged from the Treasury could not account for anything close to their full mintages.
Misunderstandings because of the Pittman Act melting have been a constant factor in the Morgan dollar story over the years. The proof-only 1895, which has an officially listed mintage of 12,880, was a date where some felt that the case could be made that the entire mintage except for 880 proofs was actually destroyed. That would have been, except for the fact that the listed mintage turned out to be in error. To the best of our knowledge, there were never 12,000 business strikes. This is just another example of some of the confusion created by a huge melting where the records do not include the numbers of each date.
The case can certainly be made that the majority of Morgan dollar dates had some losses because of the Pittman Act. One group of exceptions might be the Carson City dollars of the period from 1880 to 1885. These are the dates that were found in large numbers in the Treasury vaults and became the coins sold in the 1970s by the General Services Administration.
Their story is likely to be simple in that they were shipped east around 1900 after the Carson City facility stopped producing coins. Being the first coins shipped from any facility to the Treasury, they probably ended up in the back of the vault. When dollars were needed for melting or for use, it would have been natural to simply take the bags from the front of the vault. Consequently, these Carson City coins were never melted or paid out, resulting in the enormous numbers that were eventually sold in the 1970s.
Other dates, however, were not so lucky. Stored in vaults in the various mints or in the front of the Treasury vault, they would potentially be pulled out to be shipped to the casinos in Reno or the melting pot as a result of the Pittman Act. Almost all would have suffered some losses, but which ones had the largest losses from the Pittman Act?
There were many factors besides the Pittman Act that could have played a role in certain dates not being available today. That said, coins that were paid out or not saved in the 1930s and 1940s, for example, is something we can usually trace. Finding the dates that simply vanished and left no record of having been released into circulation is where we find the dates most likely to have been destroyed as a result of the massive melting.
Generally there is a belief that most Carson City dates were not destroyed, and that seems to be correct. The 1879-CC may, however, be an exception. Today the 1879-CC is seen as basically the second-toughest of the Carson City Morgan dates behind only the 1889-CC. This is a little unusual since the 1879-CC actually has a reasonably solid mintage of 756,000.
There are reports of a few examples of the 1879-CC in the Redfield hoard and a bag or two in the 1950s, but there are never reports of any numbers of the 1879-CC being released at any time. The best guess to explain the lack of numbers has to be Pittman Act melting. It did not destroy the entire mintage of the 1879-CC, but it looks very possible that hundreds of thousands of an already fairly low total ended up in the melting pot.
Another date that might surprise some as a likely candidate to have been heavily melted is the 1881-S. The 1881-S is the date that most turn to today if they want an inexpensive top quality Morgan dollar. There are literally millions of 1881-S Morgans in the market today, and a huge percentage of them are unusually nice.
Under the circumstances, it seems unlikely that large numbers were melted, but it must be remembered that the 1881-S had a mintage of 12,760,000. Some were released around 1881, but it seems that at least a few million would have made their way into the Pittman Act melting pot simply because there were so many to spare. It’s an ironic thing to have a very available date also be heavily melted, but that seems to be the situation with the 1881-S.
The 1884-O is another case of a large mintage that was seemingly cut down by some force that would most likely have been the Pittman Act melting. The 1884-O had a mintage of 9,730,000. We know because of circulated examples that some numbers were released in circulation at the time of striking, but after that there are not a lot of reports of the 1884-O appearing.
Some 1884-O bags were released in the 1930s and there were other releases in 1962, but the totals come well short of that 9,730,000 mintage, which is a good indication that some numbers were melted around 1918.
The mintage of the 1884-S was not as large at 3,200,000, but it just does not seem to be found in any numbers today. Over the years there were reports of a few bags being paid out, but never many. Those few bags paid out in the 1950s look to be the survivors as the 1884-S just never appears to have had a heavy release. That suggests there were scattered bags and not the sort of quantity one would expect from a mintage of 3.2 million pieces.
The 1885-CC is interesting, as it might be one exception to the 1880s Carson City dollars. In fact, 65 percent of its mintage was found in the GSA sales. The other 35 percent, however, is subject to question.
The 1885-CC is easily the toughest Morgan dollar to find in circulated grades. That’s right, tougher than the 1893-S or 1889-CC. Only the proof-only 1895 might be tougher. That extreme lack of circulated examples suggests that the remaining 35 percent of its mintage did not get released into circulation.
That makes the Pittman Act a reasonable explanation for what happened to them. The numbers would not have been large since the 1885-CC only had a mintage of 228,000, but the percentage of that mintage destroyed could well have been significant.
The 1885-CC might be the most extreme case, but it is very possible that among the Carson City dollars that we assume were melted in 1918, there were some of almost every CC date. After all, the highest percentage in the GSA sale was about 85 percent, but most others were closer to 50 percent of the original mintage. Certainly the other half of the mintages of those dates went somewhere, and the Pittman Act destruction might be a pretty good guess as to why those dates were so tough prior to the GSA sales.
The 1886-S, with a mintage of 750,000, is another date that potentially seems to have lost some numbers in the melting of the Pittman Act. With a modest mintage, we would not expect to see too many examples of the 1886-S floating around. However, for many years after the Pittman Act melting, the 1886-S was seen as a rarity. Finally a few bags did emerge, but it never showed up in any numbers and that includes the massive releases of the 1960s. The likely reason is that it was simply gone long by then, having been melted back in 1918.
The 1890-S is a date with a large mintage of 8,230,373. It appears that large numbers of the 1890-S ended up in a variety of places. It looks to have been released in some numbers at the time it was produced as was fairly normal for San Francisco Morgans. They were seeing use in the San Francisco area. Certainly there still would have been ample numbers of the 1890-S sitting in the vaults when the call for dollars to be melted was received.
Even with perhaps millions hitting the melting pot, the 1890-S was still seen in some numbers in later years. Bags were released in the 1940s and 1950s. While there were not large numbers in the Treasury releases of the 1960s, the Redfield hoard reportedly had 20 to 40 bags. So, while available, the 1890-S would probably be much more available had numbers not ended up in the Pittman Act melting.
The 1891-CC was another Carson City date that seems to have potentially been lost in some numbers to the Pittman Act melting. With a mintage of 1,618,000 coins, the 1891-CC should have been available, yet it was not in the GSA sales in any numbers.
Some were probably released into circulation at the time, but the most likely reason for the disappearance of most of the mintage would be the Pittman Act. There were less than 6,000 in the GSA sales, and the few bags reported in the 1940s and 1950s are just a drop in the bucket of the supply that should have been present.
The 5,296,000 mintage 1891-S is another date that seemingly had a lot of its mintage disappear about the time of the Pittman Act. Once again, some were probably paid out, while others did appear in the 1940s. But as the years passed, there were no great numbers of 1891-S dollars emerging as might be expected. They had to disappear somewhere. They never appeared in the Treasury releases, and that is usually the sign that they were melted.
The 1896-O was another date with a solid mintage of 4,900,000. It should have been around in bags for many years. While a few did appear in 1953 and 1956, the numbers were certainly nothing like what would be expected. The one best answer as to where they all went was the melting pot back in 1918.
The 1896-S with a mintage of 5 million is a very similar case. It should have been seen over the years in some number, but that has not happened. In fact, by the 1970s the 1896-S was seen as tough in Mint State, which is very unusual considering its mintage.
The 1898-O was the first of the three dates that was assumed to have been virtually totally destroyed. That was before large numbers of the 1898-O appeared in the 1960s, causing its price to drop as suddenly there were enough 1898-O dollars to go around. Even with high surviving numbers and a mintage of 4,440,000, there is actually a very good chance that some of that mintage was melted. However, the melting was not as large as many had suspected prior to the release of large numbers of the 1898-O in the 1960s.
There are virtually no Philadelphia Morgan dollars where we can find clear evidence of Pittman Act losses. The 1901 may be the one exception, as it had a mintage of 6,962,000. With that sort of mintage, the 1901 should have been relatively common and large numbers of bags should have been released over the years. In fact, the 1901 was somewhat available but the expected numbers of bags never appeared. Somehow large numbers of the 1901 simply disappeared and, as usual, the leading suspect for that is Pittman Act melting.
The 1903-O was the classic. Almost unavailable prior to November of 1962, the working assumption was that the entire 4,450,000 mintage had been destroyed. The Pittman Act likely did claim a large percentage of the 1903-O mintage, but not all as everyone had assumed. When the 1903-O went from $1,500 to $15 in price, it an interesting situation. It is easy to misunderstand what happened. Yes, large numbers were released, but the initial assumption that large numbers of the 1903-O were melted is probably correct. Three million of the 4,450,000 were probably destroyed, and the total might have been more.
The 1903-O was virtually unknown prior to November of 1962 when the first bags started appearing. That’s highly unusual for a coin with a mintage of 4,450,000. The few known examples at the time tended to be circulated, and then came the release of the bags. The number released has been estimated at up to 1 million, although more likely it was fewer than 500,000. Whatever the total, all the other examples from the 4,450,000 mintage simply disappeared and that probably means in the Pittman Act melting.
The 1904-O was in a very similar situation. With a mintage of 3,720,000, the assumption was that virtually all had been destroyed by the Pittman Act because there were very few available in the early 1960s. This made the 1904-O a key date, although not quite as tough as the 1903-O. Then suddenly in the 1960s more than a million examples hit the market. They had been sealed in a Treasury vault since 1929. That release was enough to make the 1904-O available, but it is worth remembering nowadays that the total released was still only about one-third of the entire original mintage. As the 1904-O was a key date prior to the Treasury release, we have to assume virtually none of the remaining two-thirds of the mintage was ever seen. Those more than 2 million examples were almost certainly victims of the Pittman Act melting as well.
Certainly there are other dates where the case can be made that some numbers were probably destroyed. It stands to reason that when 270 million pieces are melted, almost every Morgan dollar date would have at least a few examples involved in the destruction. These dates, however, appear to be ones where we can see greater evidence than usual that they were melted and that the melting had a significant impact on our supply today.
It was fortunate for collectors that the supplies of most Morgan dollars were so large. Pittman Act melting reduced the supplies, but did not really create many rarities. Some dates are tougher than they should be, but generally speaking, the bulk of the dates heavily destroyed in the Pittman Act melting still are available to collectors today. There are a few exceptions. The 1879-CC is a tough date, for example. But
realistically the Pittman Act melting could have created many more problems in terms of supplies today than appears to actually be the case.
By Doug Winter RareGoldCoins.com
Editors Note: Usually we do not post two Market Reports together, however we wanted to give our readers a contrast of two perspectives on the recent Long Beach Show from two dealers whose opinions we highly respect .
Even in the best of markets, I go to Long Beach with limited expectations. I love the convenience factor (it’s one of my few sub-two hour flights) but this show has, in my experience, really lost its luster. Keep on reading for my thoughts on the Decline of Long Beach and a recap of the show.
I think there are two significant reasons why Long Beach has gone from a great coin show to a so-so one. The first is the high price of the tables. Back when tables were more competitively priced, there were tons of small coin shops, Mom-n-Pop dealers and vest pocket dealers who had their own tables or shared them. This was a great source for fresh coins and it meant that there was a lot of coin trading as items went up the numismatic food chain. Now, these dealers no longer attend and this means that there is very little fresh material.
The other reason that Long Beach has suffered has to do with the draconian California tax laws. I’m not going to address these at length but let’s just say that Baltimore has become a great show in large part because Maryland’s tax laws are not quite as “zealous” as our friends in California.
As I said, I went to Long Beach with low expectations. I actually think the show was a bit better than I would have expected. The crowds were decent and my sales were not bad. I was happy with the limited number of coins that I bought and virtually everyone who I spoke with had a good—if not great—show. I think a lot of a dealer’s success right now has to do with what he deals in and his or her desire to sell older inventory at new levels. Simply put, if you have nice quality collector-oriented coins in your inventory, they sell. If you have a bunch of expensive, esoteric coins or boring widgets in stock, you aren’t selling much. If you have coins in stock that have been sitting around since June and you haven’t adjusted the prices downwards, you aren’t selling anything.
I have already posted descriptions and images of many of my new purchases. Some of the highlights are as follows:
- A superb 1897-O eagle graded MS64 by PCGS
- A choice NGC MS63 1839 half eagle
- A rare and popular PCGS AU50 1838-C half eagle
- A very rare PCGS MS61 1846-O half eagle
- An underrated and high end 1846-D Normal Mintmark half eagle graded AU58 by NGC
I still don’t think I have a really accurate handle on the coin market but given the awful state of the economy, I think things are holding up far better than I would have expected. Trust me, I have experienced some truly dreadful coin markets and we aren’t even close to any of these. Every dealer is feeling the effects of the economy and everyone is reducing (or wants to reduce) their inventory. But all things considered I am pleasantly surprised. At least so far…
The Heritage auction contained a boatload of rare date gold and I figured it would be an interesting test of the market. Some of the coins were not especially high end for the grade and there were certain dates that were represented by multiple examples. Given the fact that the traditional bottom-feeder buyers for coins like this are either saddled with large inventories, large debt, large headaches or all three I figured that there would be some very cheap prices. I was proven correct.
Many of the not-so-nice Charlotte and Dahlonega coins in the $5,000 to $10,000 range sold for the lowest prices I can recall in quite a while. There were instances where coins sold for less than half of Trends. But (and this is a BIG but) there is a good reason for this. Buyers of these coins have become sophisticated enough that they will not pay good money for a bad coin. If a coin is in an AU58 holder and it is a bright-n-shiny piece with the eye appeal of an AU50, that’s what it is going to trade for, regardless of the holder. That’s the beauty of knowledge. If you learn what a coin is supposed to look like you do not have to use the grading services as a crutch.
The irony of the sale was that some nice coins got dragged down with the not-so-nice ones. There were some exceptional Charlotte quarter eagles that were pedigreed to important collections such as Dingler, Elrod and Eliasberg and they sold for 15-25% less than what I would have thought. As I had expected, this sale represented a great opportunity for a savvy collector to get a great head start on a world-class Charlotte quarter eagle collection at prices that haven’t been seen since the mid-1990’s.
Not everything in the sale went cheaply. The New Orleans eagles were strong. An 1841-O graded AU55 by PCGS brought $25,300, the Bass 1847-O eagle graded MS64 by PCGS sold for a record-setting $51,750, an NGC MS60 1856-O set a record for this date when it sold for $15,525 and a PCGS EF45 1883-O brought an amazing $29,388 – far and away a record price for this date in this grade.
The affordable, collector quality coins in the auction that were nice did pretty well. There were a number of instances where a solid-for-the grade EF45 or AU50 brought nearly as much (or as much) as not-solid-for the-grade pieces in AU50 or AU53 holders. The market for solid $1,500 to $3,000 Charlotte and Dahlonega gold, in fact, seems much stronger right now than it does for the more expensive coins. The one exception is when the more expensive coins are popular, rare or just plain old spectacular.
Article provided by coinlink.com
By Laura Sperber – Legend Numismatics
Like many dealers we did not come to this show with many expectations. In fact, we were less sure of what would transpire there vs. how we felt going into this years FUN Show. As nearly always the case, this Long Beach was better than expected for us (and many other dealers too). In fact, we rank this show as probably the best of the major shows we have attended since the ANA back in July. Collectors are alive and are checking out the market.
WHOLESALE
Dealers across the board were having a tough time. Many were either overstocked at higher prices or had no cash. Trading (vs. out right selling for a check) was common. We know of one dealer who said he did $900,000.00 in business-but only took in $50,000.00 in checks. The smart dealers knew not to sit on coins and vowed to be creative to make them move. We’d guess a very large % of dealer to dealer business was via trades. Sure there was complaining and worry, but everyone we saw tried to do business.
There are several things happening on the wholesale level that hurt dealers and even the over all market. They are:
*The grading services have tightened up and killed off several coin doctors and seriouly wounded the crack out game. The crack-out dealers typically are the strongest buyers at a show.
*Wholesalers always slow down long after retail dealers. They simply do not have as many orders to fill thus they cut back buying.
*Bad cash management. A few dealers have had their credit lines pulled. Or, they are in denial and refuse to sell inventory at the new levels.
*Two major “bottom feeder” dealers are having financial problems and can’t serve as a clearing house for low end material. For expensive “puke” as we all like to call it, there is no more easy outs at a profit. in fact even at a steep discount there is no where to go in dealer land with puke. That costs everyone money.
Not every dealer did bad at the show. A good friend of ours did incredible wholesale biz-something he is normally not set up to do. Our wholesale biz was better than expected. We too did a few trades and took big hits. However it was interesting that as we were moaning about how much we were losing, the dealers working with us on trades were selling us their coins with the same complaints! Overall, on a wholesale level, unless you were stubborn, coins did trade-at the “new” levels.
RETAIL
This was by far the biggest surprise. For the past several Long Beach shows we had been ragging on how badly it was declining. Not this one! Thursday for the first time in ages, there was a very decent crowd. We saw many old friends and we did a little business. It seemed to us that if collectors weren’t shopping for specific coins, they attended the show to feel the climate of the market. There were several substantial players we spoke too who would love to make some serious acquisitions at today levels. No one discussed selling and no collector seemed unhappy with prices being less than they were at ANA.
We strongly believe two things are leading the way to bringing the collecting public back: the price of gold certainly has everyone’s attention. And people are just sick of the stock market. We truly believe the “real” collectors never left coins. Those who still had money either stepped aside waiting for better prices or continued to keep buying-but couldn’t find a lot of what they wanted.
An FYI: everyone wants to know if there are celebrities who collect coins. Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top was at the show buying RARE coins. He does do business with a major a dealer (not us-bummer)! We were introduced to him. He is a VERY nice fellow. The PR people are saying Kareem Abudul Jabar was there too. Didn’t get a glimpse of him.
THE MARKET
From our point of view, we do very much see some life. We aren’t getting tons of orders or breaking any records, but activity has been slowly building. The big telemarketers are surviving on huge generic orders (we noticed very few Saints in MS65-66 available). Slowly but surely you can expect those people to be converted into buying a rare coin or two. The stock market has made a lot of people believe in hard assets.
Prices are clearly off 10-20% across the board since ANA. We don’t mean to sound like a broken record but, inferior or low end coins have taken the worst of the brunt. Those pieces are off so strong (some as much as 60-75%) that we even saw several pieces being shopped that no one would buy at any price. It will take a long time for those coins to be absorbed.
THE HERITAGE AUCTION
Darn those guys are awesome! The day before the sale we were convinced there would be bargains and coins would go cheap. NOT! As the sale began, the Jack Lee Lincolns unexpectedly sold crazy (a 1913 PCGS PR66RD for $27,600.00). A major collector we know who is famously aggressive flew out to bid on those coins and bought NONE! By the end of the first session, the majority of our bids were underwater. We were totally surprised. Of course the Gold sessions were the strongest. We were the under-bidders on the fabulous $3 1878 PCGS MS67 which SOLD for $69,000.00. Unlike other areas of collectibles, the Heritage Auctions tremendously help the coin market by providing a sorely needed liquidation platform while also proving to the world good coins are still doing well.
REMEMBER THIS!
Even though the dealers have some cash flow issues and the market isn’t roaring, it is certainly NOT flooded with coins. Great coins absolutely positivity are not out there. They are not even appearing at the major auctions (Heritage sale was a bit boring). A lot of coins are in an awful lot of strong hands. And those strong hands are starting to buy again because of the better prices and lack of irresponsible investors to compete with.
We firmly believe you will not see the coin market start to turn around for another few months. There is probably another 10% downside (if even) on the good coins-but its the JUNK that is severely restricting business and is affecting the values of the nice pieces. Those coins can’t go to zero, but they also have are heading towards total unmarketability. No one has a real answer for this problem (we have seen several dealers start to downgrade coins and even change the services the coins are encapsulated in). So if you buy today, and pay a premium, its still not at the levels coins traded for at ANA time. There is strong opportunity if you know where to look. The key is to buy the BEST quality you can afford and hold for the long term.
WHATS HOT
ANYTHING and everything GOLD. Look around, no one has any quantity of MS65-66 Saints. GEM Bust material. Where are all the PR 64-67 Barber coins? DMPL Morgans and any WHITE GEM that was below $5,000.00 was selling strong. Lincoln cents are having a small spurt.
WHATS NOT
Buffalo Nickels seem to be out of favor for now. Expensive crazy graded “investor” oriented Type MS/PR68. Of course no one wants any junk (any over-graded or low end stuff).
Article provided by coinlink.com
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